Georgia's South Ossetia Conflict - Political Commentary

[jmm99]

from Stan
as Finland joins the former soviet Republics -- joining NATO -- a possibility which could not be viewed impassively

NATO and other alliances have been pushed by more than one leading politician - mutta, the leading political parties have not adopted that as a formal plarform item + about 2/3 of Finns are adverse.

Or, have I missed something since Mar 2008 - which is quite possible.

Finnish security policy: No Joy, but Finland Joins Nato Force
By Kyösti Karvonen
.....
Finland is ready to contribute to Nato Response Force (NRF), but only in a supplementary role. The painful compromise was reached after a long vacillation, just in time before Nato's Bucharest Summit, writes Kyösti Karvonen, Managing Editor of newspaper Kaleva.

http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/ne...readPosition=4

also

http://formin.finland.fi/Public/defa...&culture=en-US
http://www.mil.fi/perustietoa/julkai.../chapter_9.dsp
http://www.mil.fi/perustietoa/julkai.../chapter_0.dsp

Georgia may change that - mutta, which way will that cut is another question. We shall see.

Finland has helped Estonia - good to help cousins.

Choke off Gulf of Finland sounds good in theory. Last time we were able to do that was before Charlie the Great screwed everything up in the Great Northern War - and we still remember the consequent Great Wrath.

Sorry to be a little gloomy here.

Kiitos paljon.

[Stan]

NATO and other alliances have been pushed by more than one leading politician - mutta, the leading political parties have not adopted that as a formal plarform item + about 2/3 of Finns are adverse.

Or, have I missed something since Mar 2008 - which is quite possible.

Georgia may change that - mutta, which way will that cut is another question. We shall see.

Finland has helped Estonia - good to help cousins.

Choke off Gulf of Finland sounds good in theory. Last time we were able to do that was before Charlie the Great screwed everything up in the Great Northern War - and we still remember the consequent Great Wrath.

Sorry to be a little gloomy here.

Kiitos paljon.

JMM, Pole tänu väärt !
I'll just say that more than a year following the Bronze Dude in Estonia, Finland got a good taste of Russian diplomacy along with her Baltic neighbors. Transit traffic came to an abrupt halt across all of Russia's western border. Finland may not depend on revenues from transit traffic as much as the Baltic States, but tractor trailers stacked up on the border for nearly 20 kilometers certainly sent a message.

Finland's decision (and the timing of that decision ahead of Sweden) to contribute to the NATO Response Force is, in and of itself a strong signal. The Finns that I deal with (military and law enforcement) are openly very pro-NATO, and view(ed) Estonia's membership as a wise decision. Check out the smooth-tongued FM Lavrov's recent comments in Helsingin Sanomat regarding Finland and NATO. Not worried, Aye ? Heh

I think Georgia will open the eyes of the Finnish public, and has served only to increase Finnish ties with the Baltic States.

BTW, wasn't it Estonia's "Finnish Boys" who came to the aid of Finland

Terv, Stan

[jmm99]

from Stan
BTW, wasn't it Estonia's "Finnish Boys" who came to the aid of Finland

the Estonians learned how to swim ? Will wonders never cease.

(Semi-)seriously, would not it be nice if Ingria were a province of Estonia, or of Finland, or an independent state - and that Ivan was land-locked from the Baltic ? Fairy tale, unfortunately.

We'll just have to be patient on the NATO thing. Finns take a while to make up their minds. It's the mutta thing - put three Finns in a room and out comes 6 very different political parties.

[Stan]

the Estonians learned how to swim ? Will wonders never cease.

(Semi-)seriously, would not it be nice if Ingria were a province of Estonia, or of Finland, or an independent state - and that Ivan was land-locked from the Baltic ? Fairy tale, unfortunately.

We'll just have to be patient on the NATO thing. Finns take a while to make up their minds. It's the mutta thing - put three Finns in a room and out comes 6 very different political parties.

JMM, touché. Permit me to elaborate regarding your drunk sailors from the Frozen north.

Although the Finns helped out Estonia to about 1919, Estonian participation in the Winter War (39 to 40) started by crossing the frozen Gulf of Finland braving cracks in the ice and Russian patrols (no, they did not swim ), more than 3,000 men fought to the autumn of 1943, and on 08 FEB 44 Marshal Mannerheim activated the 200th Infantry Regiment, JR 200 (nicknamed the Finnish Boys).

All told, 3,352 Estonian men fought in the Finnish armed forces. 410 in the Navy, forming 10 percent of the Finnish Navy (but they couldn't swim) HEH !

BTW, Santa does not come from Lapimaa, he originates, to this day in Alaska, and he's an Amurican

Terv, Stan

[jmm99]

Stan, please feel free to educate me more on things Finnish & Estonian. I learnt something new.

For those interested in the Finnish-Estonian co-operation in the Winter-Continuation War, check this page:

http://www.ww2f.com/russia-war/21967...39-1944-a.html

Looks like we owe you a regiment or two (maybe more depending on the Estonian interest rate - 6 for 5 would be brutal - Estonia would own Suomi).

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There has been a slight poll shift from Dec 2007 to Mar 2008. Interesting shift if Sweden also joins NATO - somewhat surprising since the Swedes are sometimes called "lemmings". Didn't spy anything after Mar, but could have missed it.

20.12.2007
About one in four Finns feel that Finland should seek membership in NATO. Over two thirds remain opposed to joining the alliance.

12.3.2008
Only 21 per cent of Finns are in favour of joining NATO, whereas 54 per cent are opposed and 23 per cent would not give an opinion.
.....
A bigger difference emerged when respondents were asked if Finland should join NATO if Sweden does the same. In that hypothetical situation, 41 per cent would be in favour of NATO membership, significantly outnumbering opponents.

http://www.hs.fi/english/archive/

BTW: No Saami Santa in our family. Mom was born here (actually, Swedish was her first language; Finnish secondary) - so, standard North Pole (not Alaska) Santa. I was found under a log in Alaska as my dad was checking his trap lines - his alternative to the stork story.

[AmericanPride]

German Chancellor says Georgia will join NATO:

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Geor...erkel_999.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday assured Georgia would join NATO as she strongly backed the ex-Soviet republic's President Mikheil Saakashvili in his conflict with Russia.

"Georgia will become a member of NATO if it wants to -- and it does want to," she told reporters before talks with Saakashvili in Tbilisi.

It was one of the strongest statements yet of support for Georgia's NATO membership bid, which is fiercely opposed by Russia.

I think that's an interesting statement coming from the W. European country most closely aligned with Russia.

[jmm99]

from AmericanPride
...the W. European country most closely aligned with Russia

This statement strikes me as a bit strange, but I claim no particular knowledge. Enlighten me about your reasoning and some facts in support. Not looking for an argument - just some knowledge.

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After watching a few newscasts today, I wonder how much of Georgia will be joining anything; but that is a separate thread.