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Old 1 Day Ago   #801
CrowBat
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Bill...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
The following Congressional Research Study points to the fact that a Free Syrian Army does not actually exist.
What's new about that?

The 'Free Syrian Army' was always an idea of a non-religious, non-sectarian insurgency against Assadists. For Syrian insurgents, it's a trademark, like meanwhile there is a trademark of the Free Syrian Police (actually a neutral service organized by former police officers that are controlling civilian life and security in most of insurgent-held areas). In the West, the term was foremost used by the media that was in trouble with explaining all the various groups fighting under that title - even more so once all the possible foreign powers began conditioning provision of aid on insurgents declaring their political and religious intentions (which was precisely what caused the rift within insurgency and disunited the original FSyA into about 6,400 different militias organized into some seven umbrella groups).

Ever since, it's foremost used by everybody with similar levels of cluelessness like the media.

Quote:
If our civilian leaders (I'm confident our military planners understand this) are proposing strategies based on supporting a mythical army, we're off to bad start.
If US civilian leaders can't see the FSyA, then for following reasons:

- regime gased it again (using CWs it promised to destroy) and there is still too much smoke but to see,

- they're intentionally looking the other way, or

- insist on a standpoint that every Moslem (including all those looking like a Moslem) = al-Qaida.

But you know, frankly: I can perfectly understand this position. Really. Imagine Obama, all his advisers and all the others insisting on this POV having to explain three separate uprisings of supposed 'extremist Islamists' (see Dayr az-Zawr area) against the Daesh in August this year, emergence of such groups like White Shroud (anti-Daesh insurgency in same area, ambushing and assassinating idiots), even the Salafist Ahrar ash-Sham fighting the Daesh - just not the regime they insist not to bomb etc.?

Let just start with a guess about who between them might happen to know about this all?

And then try to find out how many American citizens in total know about such facts?

Hand at heart: explaining this is pure horror. Nobody in the DC can do that. So, better say, 'FSyA is a myth' and voila: everybody is happy!

Quote:
We need to be leery about the high volume of misinformation on blogs, twitter, etc. (that often intended to be little more than propaganda to garner support for a particular group or individual in Syria) that attempt to paint another picture. At a minimum trust but verify, but better yet marginalize the talking heads in our media who insist on accepting myths as facts. Plans based on myths will fail when they confront reality.
Let me see if I understand this clearly: the 200 or so TOW-kills scored by Harakat Hazm only and this in the area between Hama and Moarek since January this year alone (i.e. this is not to talk about dozens of others), all nicely documented on videos - are a 'myth'?

Ah yes: Harakat are about 5,000 former Syrian military officers, no 'farmers, students and doctors', and thus not fitting in Obama's (& CO's) argumentation.

Never mind: forget me mentioning them.

Quote:
This doesn't mean that an external power can't eventually integrate and more effectively organize these resistance forces. This must be one of the first steps, and until that is accomplished little will be accomplished by providing arms without U.S. or other foreign advisors on the ground to direct operations based on a coherent plan.
...which is the reason why the USA are now making air-drops to Kurds that are listening to command of PKK-leadership, which is considered 'terrorists' not only by Turkey, but half the EU/NATO too and is fighting for something that is against US interests, namely an independent state?

Makes sense...

Quote:
This casts doubt on the logic of those who advocated support for the "FSA" when the conflict first emerged. It explains why Sen McCain posed with al-Nusra fighters, based on a lack of understanding (a continuing thorn in our side when it comes to developing strategy). Even if one of the many resistance groups, or one of the fleeting coalition of groups, got lucky (chance is a key element in war) and removed Assad, the different groups would quickly turn on one another....
How do you want to know? Right now, these 'different groups' are working together very well. Otherwise, the insurgent frontlines would've collapsed long ago.

Quote:
The next report is an article on a classified CIA report that states "their" efforts to arm rebels in the past has failed in most instances.
Is this serious?

So, Hazm, SRF and others haven't got the US-made TOWs (most are from lots manufactured just 3-4 years ago) that can be seen on so many videos...?

Fantastic. I'm therefore extremely proud to - for the first time in history ever - present video-evidence of a 'myth'. See here:

Non-existing Free Syrian Army using TOWs:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ede_1412871065

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8d8_1412954857

Harakat using TOWs:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3a_1413312384

Southern Front using TOWs:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a74_1413328282

13th Division (ex-FSyA now Army of Mujahideen) using TOWs:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a97_1413403410

...and Islamic Front using TOWs:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e08_1413208929

Yes, ladies and gentlemen: all you can see here has never happened - at least not according to US Congress and the CIA.

Quote:
In my opinion, the CIA has proven over the years to be astrategic when it comes to supporting resistance movements, insurgencies, etc., they tend to throw money and arms at a problem without thinking it through.
And in my opinion CIA can't do anything if there is a pres that's micro-managing this cluster-f..k although entirely clueless about what and why is he doing - and who insists on interrupting the flow of supplies every time the IRGC-led regime gangs are on offensive.

Quote:
Bottom line we need to do this better.
Finally something I can agree with.

Last edited by CrowBat; 1 Day Ago at 03:43 PM.
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Old 1 Day Ago   #802
CrowBat
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Contrary to CIA's own reports to the Congress, the agency appears to be doing quite well with its 'vetting' of Syrian insurgents.

Here an excellently-prepared, really 'authoritative' Complete and Growing List of Vetted Groups of Syrian insurgents that either already have, or are about to get US military aid.

Summary of 'mythical' groups in question:

- V Corps FSyA (including 13th Division; Knights of Truth, 101st Division; Falcons of Mt Zawiya; 1st Infantry Brigade; Harakat Hazm; Nouradin az-Zanki; Ahmad al-Abdo Martyrs Brigades; Falcons of al-Ghab Brigade and Brigade of the Chargers)

- Qunaitra Military Council FSyA & SRF (Grandons Brigade, Youth of Sunnah Brigade; al-Anfal Brigade; 1st Brigade; and Damascus Martyrs Brigade)

- Jaysh al-Mujahideen (Syrian Martyrs' Brigades; Omari Brigades; Yarmouk Brigade; Partisans of Islam Front; Hamza Division; Sword of ash-Sham; Martyrs of Islam Brigade; Dawn of Islam Brigade; Helpers of Sunnah Brigade; Helpers Brigade, Amoud Horan Brigade; Emigrants and Helpers Brigade; One-ness Battalion of Horan; and 1st Artillery Battalion)

Of course, all of these are presently fiercely attacked by the SyAAF: Syrian Air Force Carries Out 200 Strikes in 36 Hours
Quote:
...The Syrian air force carried out more than 200 air strikes around the country in the past 36 hours, a group monitoring the war said on Tuesday, a rapid increase in government raids as U.S.-led forces bomb Islamist insurgents elsewhere.

The intensified strikes by President Bashar al-Assad's forces will add to the fear among his opponents that the government is taking advantage of the U.S. raids on Islamic State to attack other foes, including opposition groups that Washington backs.

Analysts say the increase could be because the Syrian military wants to weaken rebel groups before they get training and equipment promised by the United States.

Since midnight on Sunday, the Syrian military carried out at least 210 raids, including barrel bombings, on provinces in the east, north and west of the country, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. It said there were many casualties but did not give an exact figure.

The military concentrated the strikes in the "western corridor" that stretches from the southwest up through Damascus towards the Mediterranean, according to the information from the the Observatory, which says it gathers details from all sides of the conflict.

The air raids struck areas in the Hama, Daraa, Idlib, Aleppo and Quneitra provinces as well as the Damascus countryside, it said. It also hit the eastern Deir al-Zor province where U.S.-led forces have also been bombing Islamic State, the Observatory added.
...
At least there are no new reports about deployment of chemical weapons, sigh... at least not by the regime.

Namely, the Daesh is back to attacking Ayn al-Arab/Kobane in force. According to a YPG-release from yesterday, it has brought reinforcements from Raqqah, Jarabulus, Manbij and Tel Abyad and launched an all-out attack from several directions. They should have attempted to attack with two suicide car bombs, but both vehicles were destroyed before reaching Kurdish positions. The YPG claimed 11 idiots KIA in the east, 13 in the south, 19 in the south-west and 14 in the west, in exchange for 11 own KIA.

As should be known, two days ago the YPG was 'reinforced' by a typical US 'shot from the hip' style of nonsensical action: i.e. through air-drop of bundles with AK-47s, ammo and hand grenades. It doesn't matter if one JDAP parachute failed and a box ended in Daesh hands - which is now widely becried by the media.

But, what should matter is: why offending what should be a crucial ally in the area (Turkey) and who to hell is 'vetting' the YPG?

Plus: this morning there is a flood of reports about the Daesh launching some sort of chemical weapons attack in Kobane area, and about a number of injured YPG combatants.
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Old 21 Hours Ago   #803
Bill Moore
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Crowbat

Quote:
Here an excellently-prepared, really 'authoritative' Complete and Growing List of Vetted Groups of Syrian insurgents that either already have, or are about to get US military aid.
Why do you believe this Marxist propaganda site is authoritative? This looks like little more than propaganda directed against English speaking nations to gain support for different resistance movements, that by the way embrace a Marxist ideology. All photos of the Syrians throughout the articles show them holding up signs in English (target audience), and holding up drawings of President Obama.

There is nothing authoritative about this site. That doesn't mean everything in it is inaccurate, or that any of it is inaccurate, but it is clearly intended as propaganda. It also tells a story that agrees with your view, so obviously you embrace it. That is a human tendency we all embrace, and have to consciously fight to get closer to objective and further from subjective.

Your authoritative site is in George Sabra's name, a noted Syrian communist who is now the head of the Syrian National Council (SNC). Clearly an a non bias source that wouldn't twist the facts to achieve a political objective.

Who are the real puppet masters in Syria? Here is one view

http://news.az/articles/region/92937

Quote:
Turkey and Qatar have been vocal supporters of the Syrian opposition and have been heavily engaged in efforts to coordinate the fragmented Sunni-majority Syrian rebels. The two states contributed jointly to the formation of the Syrian opposition’s civilian wing, the Syrian National Council, and its military wing, the Free Syrian Army (FSA).

Both countries have also been criticized for supporting the al-Nusra Front, the majority of whose militants later joined the ranks of ISIL.

The Qatar-Turkey line has occasionally deviated from the U.S.-Saudi approach in restructuring the opposition like the Syrian National Coalition and FSA into the Higher Military Council.
Nonetheless, the propaganda is well done. Give every organization a Facebook page, a flag, and a few photos to create the illusion of a real army in being.

War has always been propagandized with half-truths and lies, the only difference now is that it has exponentially increased with the web and social media.
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Old 55 Minutes Ago   #804
CrowBat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
Crowbat
Why do you believe this Marxist propaganda site is authoritative?
Because ideology of the owner of that website does not matter in the case of the work by two guys that sat down and really did their homework.

Besides, what kind of problem have you got with Syrian Marxists?

If nothing else, from your standpoint the only thing that should matter here would be that Marxists certainly can't be 'Islamist extremists'...

Quote:
All photos of the Syrians throughout the articles show them holding up signs in English (target audience), and holding up drawings of President Obama.
Yes, that's perfectly right. Guess, you've never seen all the similar photos from Kfarnabel at earlier times?

Quote:
There is nothing authoritative about this site.
I'm not talking about the site, but the list of vetted insurgent groups posted on it. No matter whether one likes the site and its owner, or not, the list is correct (at worst, affiliations of specific groups would be better re-grouped the way I've posted them here).

Quote:
That doesn't mean everything in it is inaccurate, or that any of it is inaccurate, but it is clearly intended as propaganda.
Oh, excuse me.

Then please help me understand you correctly:

- posting lists of Syrian insurgent groups the sheer existence of which is declared a 'myth', but which actually have been vetted by the CIA and either already have got TOWs or are about to get them, is 'propaganda';

- while, realizing the correct nature of the 'FSyA' title as a trademark three years too late is... exactly what?

Alternatively, you can explain me your view of what's going on here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmx48qsBQz4

Quote:
It also tells a story that agrees with your view, so obviously you embrace it.
Sure: it confirms my information, which is good for me - and very bad for everybody explaining something else.

Quote:
That is a human tendency we all embrace, and have to consciously fight to get closer to objective and further from subjective.
Exactly that has brought me at this standpoint.

Difference is: contrary to 12 years ago, this time I'm not going to shut up.

Quote:
Your authoritative site is in George Sabra's name, a noted Syrian communist who is now the head of the Syrian National Council (SNC). Clearly an a non bias source that wouldn't twist the facts to achieve a political objective.
And the funny thing here is: more than half the groups in question can't care less about the SNC - and this precisely because they do not want to subject themselves to the control of Turkey/Qatar-supported Moslem Brotherhood.

Of course, in order to know about this one should 'consciously fight to get closer to objective and further from subjective'.

So, as you can see, we're even in agreement here.

Quote:
Who are the real puppet masters in Syria? Here is one view...
I'm not surprised you're posting a source offering just the usual set of generalizations. But what never stops making me wondering about people like you is the following:

1.) Why are you throwing together groups like those listed above, which are clearly US-Saudi supported, and refusing to accept the SNC and Turkish-Qatari line - between others because the later was so far primarily providing aid to Islamist and extremist groups, like the JAN, Ahrar etc.?

2.) Why are you blaming me for 'spreading Marxist propaganda' while failing to realize that your problem is the same like all those that share your ignorance about 'details' of the Syrian insurgency?

3.) Why are you limiting yourself to reading such 'mainstream' stuff and generalizations? Why don't you check reports by the US Treasury citing specific Iranian nationals (here too) right next to Kuwaiti nationals (alternatively here, and more precisely here), and Qatari nationals instead?

These are not only clearly identifying specific persons that are providing funding and recruitment for the al-Qaida and Daesh in Syria, but also making it clear: the above-listed Syrian insurgent groups have never received any kind of funding from sources listed by the US Treasury.

And overall: why is it so hard for people like you nowadays to activate their brains, start collecting information, start thinking and connecting dots?

Quote:
Nonetheless, the propaganda is well done. Give every organization a Facebook page, a flag, and a few photos to create the illusion of a real army in being.
...and still - and obviously - that's nothing in comparison to the Daesh and the Assadist regime.

Then, without the USA (and entire West) misunderstanding Daesh's videos of beheading its US and British hostages, the USA and allies wouldn't get involved against it.

And, without skilful manoeuvring and propaganda of the regime, everybody would know what's actually going on in Syria.

Quote:
War has always been propagandized with half-truths and lies, the only difference now is that it has exponentially increased with the web and social media.
Very nice. Then I'll offer you the following promise: in order to distinguish propaganda from reality, henceforth I'll post every single video of TOW-use by above-listed groups I can put my hands upon.

Let's start with non-existing Harakat Hazm, which never destroyed this 2S1 Gvozdika:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6d5_1413895155

...nor has it ever hit this T-55 in northern Hama province:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8yTG0VcRC0
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