Another way?

[MikeF]

We can't force peace, development, democracy or anything else upon others, we can only share it when they're receptive to it. It seems to me when we try to force it upon others, even with the best of intentions, we create an energy that then creates a countervailing energy that only spirals the violence upwards. This doesn't enable peace, but then again allowing the thugs to run the show doesn't either, so the right approach is still beyond our grasp and we need people to think hard about this and not simply come up with simpleton phrases like "hearts and minds" or if we just give them jobs, or we just need to kill more bad guys.

At best the military can implement a momentary peace only when it applies more energy than our opponents can oppose, and that momentary peace will only last as long as maintain that level of energy output. Maybe Ricks is right by default, I don't think the intent of the surge was to enable an honorable withdrawal, but it did in fact enable just that.

All our talk about irregular "warfare" and why it is so important, and yet after years of it, whether "fighting" the drug war, countering insurgencies, or conducting stability operations, etc., we have rarely achieved our ends, and in our wake have left tens of thousands dead, homeless, angry and mobilized. All with the best intentions.

The emphasis that I added to Bill's quote is quite profound. What I am hopeful is what will happen when veterans return and apply the same energy to their own communities. Except this time, it will be real building and no clearing.

[Steve Blair]

The emphasis that I added to Bill's quote is quite profound. What I am hopeful is what will happen when veterans return and apply the same energy to their own communities. Except this time, it will be real building and no clearing.

Look to the example of the Civil War veterans (the good, not the bad). What many of them achieved is quite remarkable and their impact on the nation very profound, and often missed in the whole "Greatest Generation" obsession.

[MikeF]

Look to the example of the Civil War veterans (the good, not the bad). What many of them achieved is quite remarkable and their impact on the nation very profound, and often missed in the whole "Greatest Generation" obsession.

Steve, I've always paid close attention when Ken White is sharing his journey

[Entropy]

Steve, I've always paid close attention when Ken White is sharing his journey

Poor Ken!

[Steve Blair]

Steve, I've always paid close attention when Ken White is sharing his journey

I said the Civil War, not the Punic Wars.

[Ken White]

elephants on you children...