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#1 | |
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Council Member
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Barely known, merely the last absolute monarchy in Sub saharian africa and one of the most HIV/AID affected country of the world with almost no resources, no military importance... Who wants to bring down Mswaty III? The last liberation war of Africa? |
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#2 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 3,213
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With his 13 wives he consumes more out of the national budget than is spent on education. Together with that we have astounding arrogance: Swazi King Sends Wives on Shopping Spree
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"The highest generalship is to compel the enemy to disperse his army, and then to concentrate superior force against each fraction in turn." - Col. Henderson, George Francis Robert (1854-1903) |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Since 2 days state workers are on strike demanding a political opening of the power to multiparty and democracy.
http://www.afrik.com/article12182.html (The article is in French Sorry) I think the question behind the threat is at what moment a legitimate power loose its legitimacy. I mean, in the case of Swaziland it is just obvious that no one will even try to support Mswati III. But he is the legitimate power and political parties are forbidden and direct critics of the King are illegal and punishable. So there is no room for political dialog. So the only way to bring political agenda in such case is violence, which makes of you an insurgent. |
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#4 | |
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Council Member
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Location: Durban, South Africa
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Quote:
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"The highest generalship is to compel the enemy to disperse his army, and then to concentrate superior force against each fraction in turn." - Col. Henderson, George Francis Robert (1854-1903) |
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#5 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
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A rather bland Wiki profile:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swaziland
The BBC profile, March 2010:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/afr...es/1069035.stm There is very little on Google News, but this is puzzling and I have no idea how reliable it is: Quote:
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davidbfpo |
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#6 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,421
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Quote:
Insurgency is rooted in the perceptions of the populace, and it is those perceptions that must be addressed and nurtured. Everything else is moot.
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Robert C. Jones Intellectus Supra Scientia "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired) |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Bob,
As you said, legitimacy lay in the hand of the people. So in COIN, as it is practiced nowadays, the question would be is it possible to build legitimacy? (And I do not have the answer). The question may seems genuine as if you take the postulate that legitimacy is built through democracy then you run elections and you have a legitimate government. But to that I see several constraints or contradictions: - In recent past, we tried to build legitimacy by picking up individuals as our champions, gave them means to be elected but in fact did not make any real populace consultation as the democratic process was tricked at the early stage. So the legitimacy of the elected body is extremely questionable. - If you have an elected body recognised by 51% of a population but controlling less than 49% of a territory: he is legitimate but unable to administrate. - If the elites of a selected place do not recognise the democratic process as legitimate. You end up with a governmental body which is not capable to administrate and incapable to deliver services. Then you loose the capacity to enjoy its legitimacy. A combinasion of those constraints may even make the problematic of building government legitimacy even more complex...
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#8 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Police raided Musa Hlophe house...
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Due to my passion for exotic places, I do follow Swaziland actuality since several years. (Also I am paid for, groundnuts but that’s not the point). Let’s have a look on Swaziland peaceful struggle for democracy. 2001 (if my memory is correct): the most important opponent is arrested after riots. 2006: the King pass a legislation admitting political parties as “associations” but no civil rights opening. 2008: the anti terrorism legislation is passed on 2009: women get the right to own land… (That gives you an idea of the civil rights opening) 2010: the most important opponent is liberated. The very same day he makes a speech saying that the King has no legitimacy. Just after, bombs start to blow a little everywhere. Now opponents and human rights activist in Swaziland are arrested. Somehow, this reminds me Zimbabwe. I have the strange feeling that Swaziland is learning from our dear beloved Bob… ![]() Sometime, taking arms seems to be the right solution. And by the way, all real opposition to Mswati III is based in South Africa and Swazi Observer is may be not the most objective news paper to look at Swaziland... Not saying that Swazi time is more objective neither. But it’s good to have the 2 sides of the corner. |
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#9 | |
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Council Member
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Location: Florida
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Frankly I neither understand, nor approve the trend in recent years (yes, this is new) to push for turning every government into a Democracy. To me it is in direct violation of our Constitutional and Declaration of Independence born principles; and is little removed from those who worked to spread communism in the past. The best you can do is help to shape the conditions that allow a populace to shape their governance to the form they desire, and to bestow their legitimacy on the same. To attempt to control what that outcome may be, or who may lead it is to likely rob it of the very legitimacy it needs to succeed. There is no perfect way to do this, but our efforts to control it are not helpful. To encourage and enable is good and noble, to control is selfish and makes our words and actions hypocritical.
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Robert C. Jones Intellectus Supra Scientia "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired) |
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#10 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I think that you have here THE epicentral point of the problematic. Democracy is seen as the only solution (And was promoted as such) since Cold War was won by "Democracies" over the totalitarian "empire of Evil". Note by the way that the only ideological victory was the one of capitalist economy and not democracy... But I get lost. And I think that the bias is coming from that voluntary very misinterpretation of the end of Cold War. But now that we made the political decision (Cotonou for Europe in Africa; UN council for the rest of the world except those who disagree...) either we try to find the magic potion, either we make a different political choice. Actually most of the difficulties we all face in State Building like operations comes from that statement: democracy is the only solution. |
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#11 |
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Personally I think the West set the conditions, but it was the populaces of Eastern Europe standing up to the illegitimate governances imposed over them; empowered through the emerging information age by the knowledge that they were not acting alone; that ended the Cold War.
We took the credit, not recognizing the real power at work; and then similarly not recognizing the effects of that same power at work in the Middle East and the growing popular unrest there as the rationale for Cold War imposed Western controls grew thinner and thinner each day that the fall of the wall receded into the pages of history. We claimed credit for one in the name of Democracy; and then placed blame on the other in the name of Islamism. We over rate and misunderstand the role of ideology in such popular movements. Critical Requirement, certainly. Essential requirement or COG? No. People who believe their government to be illegitimate, their situation to be unjust or disrespectful, or their plight to have no legal or certain hope for change are a simmering powder keg of power and change. Once they appreciate their situation is not the best they can hope for, once they realize they are not alone, they are far more apt to act out, regardless of the odds against them. History bears this out.
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Robert C. Jones Intellectus Supra Scientia "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired) Last edited by Bob's World; 06-20-2010 at 10:31 PM. |
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#12 |
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
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In places like Africa, alas, the noble intent may go awry, especially in "nations" composed of multiple populaces whose deepest and most heartfelt desire is to stomp the living $#!t out of the neighboring populace and take all the marbles for themselves (actually not exactly a situation unique to Africa). That doesn't mean self-determination is not worth pursuing, but the idea that self-determination will bring peace and stability is often illusory.
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#13 | |
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Council Member
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Actually self determination to bring stability is an illusion or an intellectual bias. Efficiency and social services delivery may help much more and have better results than empty elections...
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#14 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,421
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Quote:
There are indeed no perfect answers. Any answer they sort out for themselves, no matter how bloody, will be more enduring and effective than any sorted out for them, no matter how bloodless. Best we can hope to do is temper the violence a bit as they sort it out.
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Robert C. Jones Intellectus Supra Scientia "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired) |
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#15 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
The question, of course, is how to achieve something akin to self determination and popular sovereignty without something resembling democracy, and to that I've no answer at all. Quote:
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#16 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Durban, South Africa
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How do you test the will of the people?
__________________
"The highest generalship is to compel the enemy to disperse his army, and then to concentrate superior force against each fraction in turn." - Col. Henderson, George Francis Robert (1854-1903) |
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#17 | |
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Location: Durban, South Africa
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The colonies were abandoned and then we saw repeats of "one man. one vote, once" Only South Africa remains as a beacon on the continent but is teetering on the brink as the new inner circle have their noses firmly in the trough. The most shattering thing about Africa has been the early vociferous complaints about colonial boundaries only to find the OAU and now the equally useless AU demanding that no national boundaries be changed. You go figure.
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"The highest generalship is to compel the enemy to disperse his army, and then to concentrate superior force against each fraction in turn." - Col. Henderson, George Francis Robert (1854-1903) |
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#18 | |
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Depends on what you call a functioning economy. DRC never stopped to be an investing place and was much more profitable for investor when was at war. In Liberia, the direct effect of the raw material crises in the 70 led to the total disruption of a functioning economy that led to a first revolution and the arrival of Samuel Doe in power. The fact that he did not even try to restore the social services favorise the military adventure of Charles Taylor who entered in the country without local insurgent network but 200 mercenaries (mainly Liberian). In Zimbabwe, as the economy was completely dysfunctional, social services were still functioning and the country was stable despite having a war affected economy. Economy is not the solution to initiate stability and create conditions for investment. Stability is. Only social services equally shared can provide such stability. Once you have fund the stability, then you are in much better position to bargain your investments in the country… But may be it is too social/populace/people oriented? ![]() JMA: As you pointed it, the problem is one man one vote, ONCE. While it should be one man, one vote: several times.
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#19 |
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Of course not. I was responding to Bob's World's hypothetical "the best you can do" construct, not to actual conditions.
How do you finance social services without somebody somewhere generating a taxable surplus... e.g. without a functioning economy? |
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#20 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Durban, South Africa
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Quote:
Money for nothing.
__________________
"The highest generalship is to compel the enemy to disperse his army, and then to concentrate superior force against each fraction in turn." - Col. Henderson, George Francis Robert (1854-1903) |
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