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Forum Organization? | Main / All | Participant Communities | Conflicts | Military Functions | Small Wars COI | Members Only |
| Doctrine & TTPs Enduring doctrinal principles, what really works now (or not), and the TTPs that deliver them. |
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#1 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Just curious what the experts think... Thanks for any replies. |
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#2 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rocky Mtn Empire
Posts: 381
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There is no doubt that the USAF needs to play in the development of Joint COIN doctrine. We/they still haven't figured out how best to use their firepower capabilities. Dropping 2x2000lb bombs on a farm house that may or may not have had insurgents in it doesn't produce collateral damage, it produces more insurgents. (carefully selected targets -- minimum explosive force)
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#3 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 2,636
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Hi Jesse !
I've been Army all my life, so don't take this to heart if you are/were AF Going to the Air War College's site can be amusing (for the Army types): www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/awc-lesn.htm But better yet, Air & Space Power's Spring 06 Journal hits home: "The Air Force's Missing Doctrine: How the US Air Force Ignores Counterinsurgency" Quote:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...pr06/spr06.pdf Quote:
Perhaps Old Eagle is right, better late than never ! Last edited by Stan; 03-07-2007 at 09:09 PM. Reason: forgot something again |
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#4 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rancho La Espada, Blanchard, OK
Posts: 883
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On seeing these posts I recalled discussions in the 1980s with and air force officer whose name I forgot about the use of the RAF in Iraq COIN in the 1920s. A Google search turns up quite a bit of stuff but it doesn't support and optimistic use of airpower as a primary direct action weapon. Even smart bombs do have a tendency to blow up more stuff and people that we desire.
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#5 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 25
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Stan, no worries as I am a USMC officer candidate heading down to PLC this summer.
Better late than never? The article reads as though the AF brass is suddenly paying attention to COIN because FM 3-24 got all sorts of press, the guy who wrote it is now commander of MNF-I, and when they actually sat down to read it it said horrible things like: "Air strikes are probably too blunt an instrument to be of much value, and ground commanders should think twice before asking for them." Do the experts here think the AF is going to sit down and produce a thoughtful, nuanced COIN doctrine? Or will they try and protect their turf by overemphasizing the role of airpower and muddy the waters when all the services have to sit down and come up with a joint document? Maybe their criticisms of FM 3-24 are valid? Quote:
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6
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Funny, COIN wasn't a real hot AF topic until FM 3-24 was written...
My fear is that the Air Force counterinsurgency doctrine will be penned by guys who grew up in the ACC (old SAC/TAC) community. While the Air Force is great at delivering ordnance in target, and ISR is a no-fail mission, effective COIN requires so much more than that. The AF Special Operations community is making great strides in developing a more robust FID capability (teaching the indigenous population to fish today keeps us from buying them a fish later), and their AC/MC-130 platforms provide highly effective support to the trigger-pullers for the type of ground combat we're encountering today (and likely tomorrow); much more so than the fast-burners...(Mobility platforms moving humanitarian supplies play a key role in developing stability as well.) Air superiority is a wonderful thing, but specialized airpower brings more capability to the ground fight. At least until the insurgents get EuroFighters wry: |
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#7 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 859
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Hopefully the Young Turks coming up through the Air Force ranks will eventually transform a service that is badly in need of reform. This reminds me of the same mentality that General Motors's management displayed when they ignored the new competition and changes in the market, and they simply tried to discredit the truth until they were ousted. |
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#8 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland, temporarily
Posts: 1,152
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Using Air Power against insurgents does more than create collateral damage and more insurgents. Using Air Power delegitimizes our efforts to fight and beat the insurgents. In the minds of the folks who want to defeat us, our use of Air Power means that we are too chickenshit to close with, and defeat them. It leads them to believe that THEY are the morally and tactically superior fighters, who, once it AGAIN appears as if they are "kicking our butts", we turn tail, like the soft, western infidel cowards we are, and call in an airstrike to save our craven butts.
To defeat the insurgents, we must defeat them politically and militarily, in terms that they understand. Failure to do this, makes airpower a recruiting tool for insurgents. Whether Airpower creates "collateral damage" or not, it serves as a recruiting tool and a disincentive to give in to the "cowardly west". Perhaps if the insurgents valued airpower, it would be useful in a COIN fight. Or their fear of airpower exceeded their motivation for fighting. I don't think it's necessarily a personal thing, but the best thing the AF could do is to "man up" and just support the fight in the best way they can. |
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#9 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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See my article (when it comes out) on collateral damage Tom |
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#10 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: transitioning to AFSPC
Posts: 297
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Quote:
This quote alone shows a complete ignorance of what works in a COIN environment.
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#11 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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"Hand-wringing?" See the SENLIS Report posted here by Marc Tyrell some months ago to get a sense of what "hand-wringing" really means. Tom |
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#12 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: transitioning to AFSPC
Posts: 297
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I'm just getting the overwhelming sense that, with the forthcoming "AF COIN Doctrine," the job of changing the AF mindset will become even more difficult. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I anticipate some form of an air control theory with a new name.
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#13 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6
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Quote:
Speaking as an Airman with a Marine Corps background, I'm consistently surprised by the lack of awareness the Air Force possesses, not only of the other services, but of the changing nature of warfare. For those of you out there with boots on the ground, are you more in need of an air superiority fighter, or a C-130? Which will have the most impact on achieving the objectives of the "Long War?" While I am concerned that China is increasing their military spending 18% over the next year, I just can't help but believe that by the time they acquire an air superiority fighter in any appreciable number our F-22s will be obsolete. Our mobility fleet is limping, our special operations fleet should be doubled, and we're buying fighters. As Charlie Brown used to say: "Good Grief." |
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#14 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 44
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Quote:
Friend of mine: "So, what are you going to do when you deploy?" Harrier Pilot: "I'm going to pick a fight, that's what!" The harrier pilot had a warrior's mindset, but probably not the right temperment. If I need to fight, I'll be honored by an invitation to brawl. But otherwise I doubt the utility of deliberately and bombastically looking for ways of starting said fights. We're fight to end the fight, not begin more. For more on this, see Chuck Spinney (@ d-n-i.net): http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/successful_...n_lost_war.htm Spinney's attitude is a bit too caustic, but I think he makes some good points. |
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#15 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 859
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Ask Tom what an EC-130 could have done to mitigate the genocide in Rwanda. The hate/kill message was propagated primarily from one radio station.
Lift is almost always the biggest shortfall when it comes to AF support for this ground pounder. For COIN we have sufficient fire support, I would like to hear more ideas on non-lethal fire support that the AF could provide. We won't hear it from their generals, nor will see it on their budget proposals, unless they intend to put it there to get Congressional support, then shift it to bombers and fighters later. |
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#16 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: transitioning to AFSPC
Posts: 297
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Quote:
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#17 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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Quote:
To answer: tremendous effect. I spent hours on the phone in Goma--after the genocide was supposedly over (it was not in the French zone) and aside from beating the drum for water distrubution I raised the IO war repeatedly. And we never got it right--or better said we could never get across just how critical it was. For me as a boots on the ground guy in Africa--it was airlift. And Special Ops airlift and collection assets were in second place. It was largely the same in the 1960s--although much was made of "COIN" ground attack aircraft (T-28s, T-6s, and A26s) in the Congo in 1964. Those were used as straight interdiction and limited CAS assets--there was no "COIN" as we know it in the Congo then. We--the US, Belgians, mercenaries, and the Congolese--beat the Simbas into submission or extinction. And a key tool was air support. Even as recently as Somalia--airpower advocates get confused about what is COIN and what is straight interdiction and CAS. AC130s were most definitely needed in Mog; we were not doing "COIN". We were seeking to beat the warlords into submission and we went in like we were doing a simple support operation. TF Ranger was not winning hearts and minds. Even in the support operation we were not trying to win hearts and minds--we were trying to make sure the Somali warlords knew we would seriously hurt them if they tried to disrupt the feeding. One of the key indicators that the French intent behind Op Turquoise in Rwanda was less "humanitarian" than advertised was their dispatch of Jaguar ground attack aircraft to the AO. How Jaguars were going to stop genocide remains unanswered. Tom |
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#18 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3
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#19 |
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,875
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Air Force Doctrine for Irregular Warfare - The US Air Force recently (1 August) signed off on its latest doctrinal publication - AFDD 2-3 Irregular Warfare...
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