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#41 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Mountain, West Virginia
Posts: 985
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Quote:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/1...gnals_122109w/ |
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#42 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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Pete,
Excellent catch and I moved the post to this thread on Kandahar - partly as earlier reporting on the campaign by the Stryker unit(s) were here too. Sad to read that the Stryker unit is being withdrawn, perhaps for good reasons I.e. highway protection, but it does appear to be "mowing the lawn" from this seat faraway. Appalling to read that in such an important campaign and location there was so little intelligence that they used open source material.
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davidbfpo |
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#43 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Mountain, West Virginia
Posts: 985
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Thanks for moving it--it's more in context within this thread. By the way, a step-grandfather of mine was in the 17th London during the First World War. He was one of the six remaining members of the original battalion still in the unit when the war ended. After the war he moved to Australia and then to San Francisco.
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#44 | ||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 1,940
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When it comes to articles that he pens for the MilitaryTimes rags, I hate Sean Naylor's writing. He wrote a good book in Not a Good Day to Die, but there is just something out of context and missing in pieces like this. He wrote an equally poorly-written article about my old battalion in 2006, when portions of it rotated to the Anah-Rawah area to relieve a Stryker Brigade that had been re-tasked out of Al Anbar. He tried to make the units look like unprepared fools, and they were the furthest thing from it.
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It seems Naylor has tried to highlight an issue with the tactics employed, and I'll grant that there isn't enough in the article to go off of, to tell whether the CLEAR phase was working seamlessly, since there seems to be some beef about taking ground but not holding it. The larger question now seems to be whether getting to the left of boom would have happened faster with a focus on the population as opposed to counter-guerilla ops. Sadly, Naylor's lack of examples of the specific types of operations he thinks fit in each of those categories, shows that he doesn't really know what either are all about. Quote:
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Sadly, Naylor hits a foul ball with this piece. I suppose that this article opens this thread up to the question of what primary conditions are required to focus on a population-centric COIN effort. From this thin bit of reporting, did any of those conditions exist if the enemy still had the freedom of maneuver to mass and conduct larger-scale operations? Finally, what role do kinetic operations play in trying to gain access to the population? Naylor makes it sound that commanders like Kassulke wanted to focus on engagement in spite of the fact that the enemy was staring them right in the face. It doesn't have to be a all-or-nothing proposition and never has been. Perhaps this speaks to what Col Gentile was trying to say after all. Last edited by jcustis; 12-23-2009 at 04:59 AM. |
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#45 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit
Posts: 1
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@JCustis:
A couple issues with what you wrote: Some would argue Arghandab, which was very low-violence and pro-government compared to the rest of the South until this summer, didn't require a "Clear" phase this year, so much as a reinforcing of the "Hold" already in place by ANSF supported by ISAF. Obviously the commander of 1/17 disagreed, and probably for excellent reasons; I'm merely pointing out your and his assumption that a Clear was necessary, which some of Naylor's sources appear to see as the primary point of contention here. I'm also not sure that when the enemy "presents himself" entirely in the form of IED attacks on you whenever you're in restrictive terrain, that there's really anything to "Find-Fix-Finish" in the traditional sense without a heavy application of Pop-centric COIN at the same time. Obviously the Finding in that case will rely heavily on gaining local support, which, again, some of Naylor's sources seem to see as the problem. Two of the big issues the 1/17 CO was probably dealing with that Naylor doesn't mention were the tangle of competing land claims in Arghandab, which makes it even more difficult to procure property for basing than usual in Afghanistan, combined with an unwillingness to take over public property like schools and district centres for that purpose and undermine an area where development and local governance was at least until recently working, after a fashion. They also would have had very few ANSF to work with. Given those limitations, which would have effectively prevented the rapid creation of the kind of dismounted patrol bases and security stations this kind of dense agricultural area needs (it really is mostly non-permissive to LAV-sized vehicles) and the distance of the main base (Frontenac) from the populated area, the battalion commander may not have seen any realistic alternative to sweep-and-pull-back ops in the early months. Sometimes grass-mowing may seem like all you've got. That said, the fact that the enemy will occasionally "mass into platoons" (largely in my experience to overrun isolated ANP stations at night) but never uses direct fire against ISAF (and even then only when they're dismounted), only that steady rain of IEDs, which is their TTP throughout the Zhari-Arghandab area, doesn't necessarily equate to them having sufficient "freedom of maneuver to mass and conduct larger-scale operations" for COIN to be set aside entirely, either. The coalition's fear in Arghandab, with a working economy, a successful development effort, and a neutral or positively inclined population, was that it would turn into Zhari next door, where repeated sweeps and kinetic activities against suspected IED layers rapidly shut down the basis of that economy through depopulation and property damage and undermining of local governance, making it even more fertile as an insurgent hiding and recruiting location, as well as negatively impacting Kandahar City itself with a new influx of unemployed and angry young men. Any overly aggressive series of ISAF "counter-guerilla" clear ops in theory could come with those kinds of unintended side effects in this terrain. |
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#46 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Mountain, West Virginia
Posts: 985
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Here's to you, soldiers of the 1-17 in Afghanistan
By David Ignatius Washington Post Thursday, December 24, 2009; A15 BASE FRONTENAC, AFGHANISTAN--It's a week before Christmas Eve, and the chow hall of this forward operating base north of Kandahar is decorated with twinkling blue and white lights for the holidays. There are posters of Santa and a snowman on the walls, and in the center of the room there's a big sign that exhorts the soldiers: "Enjoy Meal." Christmas will be "a day to take your boots off" for the 800 members of the Army's 1st Battalion, 17th Infantry Regiment based here, says their commander, Lt. Col. Jonathan Neumann. It also will be a day to remember the 21 comrades who have been killed since the battalion arrived in August, and the 41 who have been seriously wounded. The 1-17 has the grim distinction of having lost more soldiers in action than any other battalion in the Army since Sept. 11, 2001. The men's names are recorded on a concrete slab in the center of the compound, bearing the legend "Fallen But Not Forgotten." "After a catastrophic incident, you come together and take care of your brothers," says Neumann. "Then you resolve to get back to the mission at hand." Christmas will be a moment to relax -- a day of sports, award ceremonies and a special meal. But because of combat rotation, the battalion will have to celebrate it over a series of days. I traveled here with Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who was making a holiday visit to the war zone. Amid the twinkling lights of the mess hall, he addressed the soldiers of the 1-17, their automatic rifles stowed under the meal tables. "I know you've been in a very tough fight, and I'm aware of those you've lost," Mullen told the troops, assuring them: "We have the right strategy." He met afterward with a small group from units that had been especially hard hit. This holiday season is a good time to remember these faraway soldiers. The debate over Afghanistan has provoked strong feelings, pro and con. But the country seems united in its appreciation for a military that has been suffering the stresses of war, without complaint, for the past eight years. Soldiers are usually stoics. But the members of this battalion seem highly motivated. The sergeant of a platoon that lost nine men in two weeks asked to reenlist after a memorial service for his buddies. On the day Mullen visited here, the admiral reenlisted 10 soldiers. The base lies in a dusty plain surrounded by jagged peaks. Nearby is the Arghandab River, which feeds a lush area of orchards and mud-walled agricultural plots that the soldiers call "the green zone." That's where the Taliban fighters hide and where the battalion has fought some of its toughest battles. When the battalion arrived on Aug. 7, about 150 Taliban fighters were well entrenched. Neumann says his soldiers had to "fight our way to the people." By early November, the situation had begun to change. The Taliban's cadres had been killed or had scattered, their supply caches had been destroyed -- and the local population began providing intelligence. That's the model the Obama administration hopes will be replicated in other population centers as the United States sends in 30,000 more soldiers. One thing that's painfully clear when you visit this base is that success won't come cheap. The new strategy will mean more battles, more targets for roadside bombs, and more dead and wounded American soldiers. The White House debate over Afghanistan took place as the battalion was suffering its worst casualties. The policy-wrangling directly affected these troops, but it became "white noise," says their commander. "We knew there was a debate in Washington, but there's always a debate." The 17th Infantry has a history of tough fights. Its nickname, the "Buffaloes," dates back to the Korean War, where it fought in the battle of Pork Chop Hill, a bloody push to win territory that arguably had little strategic value. But even that conflict was easier to measure than the one the Buffaloes are fighting now. "Here, it's one small incident at a time," says Neumann. There's a scraggly Christmas tree atop one of the prefabricated trailers where the soldiers of the 1-17 bunk when they're not out on missions. It's not a place any of us would want to spend the holidays, but in conversations with soldiers here, I didn't hear any complaints. In this season of peace, here's a holiday toast to people everywhere who don't have that blessing today. ***** Today SWJ Blog has a commentary piece from Wired which discusses the recent article on the 1/17th in Army Times. Click on the link to read it. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...power-playbook |
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#47 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,173
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I was a member of 5-73 CAV, 3BCT, 82nd (ABN). Out of some 450 paratroopers, we had 24 KIA and 100 WIA in the cauldron of Diyala Province during the Surge.
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#48 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: North Mountain, West Virginia
Posts: 985
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You may be right about the casualty figures. My late dad spent 30 years at the Washington Post from 1956 to 1986 and one of his cardinal rules was to avoid using superlatives in news stories because someone out there will prove you to be wrong. He was a combat veteran in World War II and was also one of the earliest staff members of Stars and Stripes-Pacific in Japan in 1945. Not all of the ad hominem remarks these days about journalists and the MSM are true.
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#49 | ||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 1,940
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Quote:
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It looks as though you drifted in to the SWC as a result of a Google string hit when researching material for your blog. That's great, but please find the introduction thread and post a little bit more about yourself. Finally, you appear to have a knowledge of LAVs that can assist with my understanding of employment constraints in AFG (personally, I don't believe there are any real constraints save deep mud ), and I invite you to an exchange of PMs to learn more about what you know. I'm also impressed if you in fact generated a mod for CC2. Thumbs up for that!
Last edited by jcustis; 12-24-2009 at 02:38 PM. |
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#50 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 45
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@Maj Custis:
In response to your last post: I'll leave it to Bruce Rolston to respond to your request for bio information, but I want to say that I consider him to be the most authoritative source for information on Kandahar as well as one of the best sources of information on working with the Afghan National Army. In my opinion he and Joshua Foust (on the RC-East AOR) are the gold standard in the blogosphere for Afghanistan issues. Arghandab District is restrictive in terms of vehicle access because of the nature of the road network. Apart from one primary north-south paved road, many of the roads have width and load bearing restrictions that prevent use by large and heavy military vehicles. The valley has an extensive canal network with most of the bridges being footbridges that will not take any kind of motor vehicle other than a motorcycle. Dismounted foot patrols are the only way to access many zones in the valley. An example of the problems associated with vehicle use in the Arghandab - in June 2008 7th SFG lost three members who drowned when the road surface gave way and pitched a RG-31 MRAP upside down into a canal. Bruce is exactly on the mark about land use issues inhibiting establishment of combat outposts or small patrol bases. In addition, there is strong local resistance to having a patrol base as a neighbor because of the belief that such bases are IED and RPG magnets, a sentiment that I heard expressed at several shuras in the Arghandab District in 2007-2008. Finally, patrol bases should involve co-location with ANSF personnel, a requirement that may rule out your field-expedient patrol bases of LAVs with concertina perimeters. As for the Naylor article, I suspect that the situation is more complicated than presented in this piece, but I also wonder if there is too much of an enemy-centric focus. The Alokozai in the Arghandab District did have an intelligence net and a militia force that seemed to be somewhat effective in 2006-2007, at least to the point that the Taliban was not actively challenging control of the district. Maybe the priority should be placed on strengthening the Alokozai and assisting them in regenerating these capabilities? The shift of the Stryker Brigade to securing Highway One may be a better fit for a vehicle-heavy unit but it also illustrates one of the basic dilemmas in Afghanistan – the fact that the Taliban use of IEDs has forced ISAF to devote significant resources, in both maneuver elements and intelligence assets, to the counter-IED operation to keep the MSRs open. As the Taliban likely intended, these are resources that cannot be used to contest Taliban efforts to gain control over the population. |
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#51 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 1,940
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Quote:
), I think we could expect to see the Taliban exert effort to regain control if the district/area in question is truly worth it.This makes me wonder what made Arghandab District worth it to the Taliban; to the point that they employed an IED campaign on that scale to defend their interests. Quote:
Last edited by jcustis; 12-25-2009 at 02:50 AM. |
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#52 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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Hat Tip to Pol-Mil FSO,
Bruce who posted (No.17)is a Canadian OMLT leader who has just been in Kandahar Province, his blogsite is:http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/ which I have just started reading through. He links to an open source account of the fighting by Carl Fosberg: http://www.understandingwar.org/repo...paign-kandahar the summary is IMHO faraway a good, easy read. There is also a commentary on Bruce's blogsite on the 'Army Times' article recently and I noted this remark on the Arghandab valley: Quote:
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davidbfpo Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-30-2009 at 07:01 PM. |
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#53 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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Update, no a response to the 'Army Times' article on the Stryker brigade operations: http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/200...k-force-buffa/ added here for continuity.
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davidbfpo |
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#54 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 11
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Recieved the following through forwarded email; cannot attest to its veracity:
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Last edited by davidbfpo; 03-25-2010 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Quote marks added and spacing changed |
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#55 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Slapout,Al.
Posts: 4,430
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Icepak 6 you need to find more emails like that one
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#56 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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An open source provincial overview and added to a separate thread as the city of Kandahar maybe the next major target of the ISAF surge.
Link:http:http://www.nps.edu/programs/CCS/Docs...view_Jan09.pdf The mapping of who is in control dates from January 2008 and I expect many who read this know it may have changed. There is another, recent thread 'Wheels coming off the bus in Kandahar?', which refers mainly to the recent fighting: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=8082 and at least five other, older threads on Kandahar. Via http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/there is a Canada’s Engagement in Afghanistan - Quarterly Report to Parliament for the Period of October 1 to December 31, 2009, which alas has no up to date map and some interesting benchmark gaps: http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-...x.aspx?lang=en There are some national maps on MG Flynn's presentation, up to December 2009, that give an overview, but not down to district level: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=9578 Anyone else who knows of a more current provincial map or open source items please add them here.
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davidbfpo |
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#57 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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NYT article from SWJ Roundup: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/wo...ndahar.html?hp
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davidbfpo |
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#58 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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Steve Coll's column on Kandahar and a certain local politician's future. Note he was accompanying Admiral Mullen on tour.
Link:http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog....html#comments
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davidbfpo |
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#59 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,116
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hat tip to al Sahwa for a short review of the campaign:http://al-sahwa.blogspot.com/2010/04...-kandahar.html
Ends with: Quote:
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davidbfpo |
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#60 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 58
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