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Forum Organization? | Main / All | Participant Communities | Conflicts | Military Functions | Small Wars COI | Members Only |
| Training & Education Developing effective, thinking, proficient Small Warriors. |
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#1 | |
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,875
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How to Think, Not What to Think at Leavenworth by SWJ Editors.
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#2 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 1,354
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#3 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Slapout,Al.
Posts: 2,620
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Link to article by recently deceased General Wayne Downing on this subject.
http://calldp.leavenworth.army.mil/e...CUR_DOCUMENT=2 |
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#4 |
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,875
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... for this 1986 blast from the past. Good reading.
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#5 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, Texas
Posts: 305
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Sometimes just asking the right questions can make a big difference in the effectiveness of our forces.
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#6 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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Agreed 100%. What was carefully built as the spriit of the AAR has over time remorphed into the CYAr. Those who follow the former get punished heavily under the latter. Neither bad news nor the messenger who brought it is welcome. Tom |
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#7 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ |
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#8 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 1,354
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That might be true of training, but not of education. I've been in the professional military educational system for over twenty years and I've never seen it portrayed as the unthinking application of doctrine.
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#9 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 86
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From "The Leavenworth Staff College: A Historical Overview" by Dr. Christopher R. Gabel, Military Review 77(5), September-October 1997:
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#10 |
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i pwnd ur ooda loop
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North Shore of Indiana
Posts: 1,816
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It is the difference between computational science and computer technology. Technology is about tools and the application of knowledge rather than the discussion of knowledge.
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Sam Liles Selil Blog Don't forget to duck Secret Squirrel The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives. |
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#11 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 86
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From "Preparing Field Grade Leaders for Today and Tomorrow" by BG Volney J. Warner and LTC (Ret) James H. Willbanks, Ph.D., Military Review, January-February 2006:
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#12 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Richmond, Missouri
Posts: 94
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The article posted sounds very much like Maj Don Vandergriff's book,
Raising the Bar. It is well worth taking a look at.
__________________
Mark Discuss at: The Irregulars Visit at: UW Review "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." - G. K. Chesterton Last edited by SWJED; 09-23-2007 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Edited Amazon Link for SWJ / SWC credit if purchased |
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#13 | |
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,875
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#14 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 256
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A thought: when General Caldwell mentions giving serving officers experience working on Capitol Hill, isn't there a real danger of them learning Washington's lessons too well? By which I mean the budget game, the way in which the different services get their share of the pie, most often through big-ticket procurements that can farm out pork to Congressional Districts. I would think that getting officers more involved on the Hill may give them valuable experience "outside the box," but at the risk of dragging them further into the corrupt game that sees us spending hundreds of billions on weapons that won't help us in the wars we're fighting now, and most likely won't help us much down the road either.
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#15 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 1,488
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Hey GS,
I got to meet a couple of officers working the Hill recently (we were doing an Inter-Agency Staff ride as part of the BSAP (FA 59) curricula) . While one of them did spend some of his time discussing Army budget with Hill staffers and members, they seemed to spend the bulk of their time working to get Congressional answers on the war from the Army staff, or about soldiers from their districts/states. I'd also mention that during and between, they spent time educating both Congress and staffers on the Army - its culture, history, etc. Overall, I think the amount of officers that cold actually work on the Hill at any given time is probably pretty small, but the opportunity to bring knowledge in and also take knowledge of Congress out is healthy - it helps leaders understand civil military relations and to be able to articulate that back into the mainstream Army is probably worth the investment. However, you bring up a very valid concern, these days to get the most out of our people we should ask why we want to do something - and what are the good and bad consequences of doing so. Best Regards, Rob |
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#16 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 1,354
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Quote:
I've heard lots of Army generals brag that they never served in the Pentagon until they were a flag. The Air Force would never do that. That is one of the reasons that, for decades, the Air Force has whupped the Army in political/budget battles. |
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#17 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 467
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I'm afraid that I have become completely cynical when it comes to this axiom of "How to think, not what to think."
I've heard since I was a cadet in the early 90's, and still rarely encounter officers of a higher rank who actually allow this to occur. The OER is a sliver of the problem, the bigger problem is the Army culture. Until the culture is fixed so trust becomes a two way street between commander and subordinate, I fear the phrase of "How to think, not what to think" is just empty speech. Is the entire MDMP process telling us how to think, or what to think? I'd be interested in hearing some responses on this.
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"If you've got one doctrine, you're a dinosaur. Period." Colonel John Boyd |
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#18 |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,390
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I think the answer to your question is tha MDMP tells us how to think BUT that it also allows the unimaginative, noninnovative, hesitant, over-cautious and / or just plain lazy to fudge by gaming the system and thus using the 'what to think' mentality -- and they get away with it because they "...tried to do it right..."
![]() The education an training porcess needs to change; the rating an promotion systems do as well -- knew a MG once who had as a COL been the Chief OPD at then MilPerCen. He and another guy designed an OER that had all a board needed to know on the front page; names and signature of rater and senior rater on the back page. Idea was to show Boards only the front page. Great idea. It lasted in review until it hit the first GO... ![]() Young MAJ I knew told me his Dad, a retired COL told him when he went in the Army to "...be good but not too good; if you are, your contemporaries will see you as a threat and kill you on the way up..." One of the better Generals I knew told me he was mediocre, "...all Generals are mediocre; the reallysmart one hide their smarts or the system will eject them..." I always found it fascinating that I was more trusted as young Marine Corporal in 1950 than I was as a fairly Senior DAC Manager in 1990... ![]() The culture is the problem. |
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#19 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 1,488
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Ski,
I can tell you the way I see it, but ultimately how you (or a CDR) uses any tool (planning, management or otherwise) depends on you/them. I'll try and lay it out for the broader audience. MDMP is a good analytical construct for gathering lots of information, framing a problem and thinking about the consequences. The actual value of the process depends upon how the steps are carried out, always balancing the time available to plan with the options you'd like to explore. The analysis portion - or the "so what" is what lays out choices in the context of how you think things are, or will be in the future tense. If done right, you transition from an analytical mode to a recognitional mode where things move from how you thought (hoped, feared, etc.) they would be, to how they actually are. Recognizing that things are different and when they are different, and what are the consequences because they are different (articulating it to the CDR for a decision) is where staffs earn their keep and help the CDR make the type of timely decisions (even deciding to do nothing is still a decision) that retain the initiative and keeps the enemy at a disadvantage. Side note - the enemy is dynamic and always reassessing his situation at well. We often build this into a plan through branches - "if this happens here we might have to do this", and while they can be useful, not every situation will be addressed, or the change may equal something different then it was thought and may require a very different action - again staffs who are abreast of the situation, share that understanding with related echelons and the CDR, and can provide options with understood and likely consequences make the difference. The staffs job has only just begun when they issue the OPORD - its the execution of the OPORD - complete with the FRAGOs that come because the conditions with all their fog, friction, and chance arise, that continually synchronize the available resources in support of the fight. I want to emphasize that the staff should not only be considering when there are problems with the base plan, but when there are opportunities. This requires (IMHO) more creativity out of the staff then just seeing where things are wrong - but exploiting an opportunity can save lives and further disadvantage the enemy. The MDMP is a starting point. It is a way to express the initial conditions for the purpose of synchronizing operations across the echelons of CMD and beginning movement toward a purpose. It is built for tactical operations at the BN/TF level and above - below were we have less info to collect and analyze (because the higher echelon does it for us and has the staff to do so), we use TLPs (Troop Leading Procedures - for those outside the ground services) which are far less cumbersome and are meant to take advantage of situations and react to FRAGOs at a much faster rate. Both planning constructs IMO have utility across the range of military operations because they are just that - framework - yes they must be adapted, but this where people/staffs count most - so its not the rigidness of the construct that confines people -its self imposed constraints. As for the OER - I have had good an bad experiences with it. It never hurt me professionally, but it did not always work to provide me the means of self-development either. The best experiences I had were as CO CDR - I had a senior rater who was all about leader development and the OER was just one more tool available to counsel and get feedback. I tried to emulate him. My rater was also a great CDR, but his style was different - more of an informal wherever and whenever the opportunity arose. Both were effective and helped me greatly. So when it comes down to it, at the R/SR levels - the OER is just another tool and how the leader uses it is a personal decision. As for big Army using it to make personnel decisions - well, it is what it is, a sheet of paper that is supposed to indicate potential over a rating period, but is not always captured well, or considered equally across its breadth and scope. However, we have to have some management tool and this is just the latest incarnation. Hoped that helped. Best Regards, Rob |
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#20 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Deutschland, temporarily
Posts: 1,152
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But now I are one.
I am currently going through the FDP-1 ILE instructor training module, and have received some fascinating training material that is being presented to us. Here's a link to what we're learning: http://teaching.berkeley.edu/bgd/collaborative.html http://www-distance.syr.edu/andraggy.html Collaborative Learning and Andragogy appear to be very promising methods of instruction, especially when directed toward Field Grade Officers in the US Army. However, are their future raters ready for independent thinkers who are "raised" to collaborate instead of directing military planning and operations? |
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