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#1 | |
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,875
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A True Culture War – Richard Shweder, 27 October New York Times Op-Ed.
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#2 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West Point New York
Posts: 266
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Anthropologists should not fool themselves. These Human Terrain Teams whether they want to acknowledge it or not, in a generalized and subtle way, do at some point contribute to the collective knowledge of a commander which allows him to target and kill the enemy in wars like Iraq.
I commanded an Armored Reconnaissance Squadron in West Baghdad in 2006. Although I did not have one of these HTTs assigned to me (and I certainly would have liked to) I did have a Civil Affairs Team that was led by a major who in his civilian life was an investment banker in New York City and had been in the area I operated for about 6 months prior. He knew the area well and understood the people and the culture in it; just like a HTT adviser would. I often used his knowledge to help me sort through who was the enemy and who was not and from that understanding that he contributed to I was able to target and sometimes kill the enemy. So to anthropologists like Ms McFate should stop sugarcoating what these teams do and end up being a part of; to deny this fact is to deny the reality of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I am in favor of this program of HTTs and see great utility in it for combat commanders. I understand the debate too between these field anthropologists who are part of the HTTs and academia as this oped point outs. I think academia is wrong to chastise these people for being a part of the HTTs. But I also think that these anthropologists who make up the HTTs should call a spade a spade and accept the reality of the effects that these HTTs produce. |
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#3 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,298
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Agree 100% with LTCOL Gentile. If anthropologists weren't helping commanders figure out who to detain/kill, they wouldn't really be all that much use.
The alternative that anthropologists in opposition should understand is that that American troops without local knowledge will possibly detain/kill many who don't deserve it. |
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#4 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rancho La Espada, Blanchard, OK
Posts: 883
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The article is interesting for several reasons. First, it represents a mainstream anthropologist who is takig a reasonable approach to the role of his discipline in war, unlike the hysteria that is often revealed in Savage Minds. (We've seen much of that debate in this forum with our own MarcT taking a leading role "on the side of the angels."
) Second, while I didn't hear McFate's interview on the Rehm show, she has called a "spade a spade" in print and makes no apology for her role (nor did the author of the op ed suggest she did). And, third, most immportantly, the anthoroplogists (some) are at last really debating their roles as citizens and giving some thought to it rather than simply spewing anti-military, government, capitalist cliches. We will all be better off for this because, Lord knows, we really do need the skills they bring to the fight, as LTC Gentile points out. Fortunately, not all anthropologists ever fell into the ideological trap. I remember teaching in the Army FAO Course in 1985 and 86 (Yes, Virginia, there once was a 6 month Army FAO course and 18/48 was a common specialty combination .) where one of my colleagues was an academic anthropologist (we were all hired from civilian academic institutions under the Intergovernmental Personnel Act).
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#5 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: currently in Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 282
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I don't think LTCOL Gentile was writing that Anthropologists directly help commanders figure out who to kill/detain. He did use a personal example that involved a CA Major, which was probably misleading in that there's a world of difference between a civilian anthropologists and a Major in the US Army with at least 6 months in Iraq under his belt.
I think it's misleading to talk about the mission of the HTT in this way. There's no way a civilian anthropologist is going to be able to advise a Commander about who to kill or not to kill, even if they were willing to, which is another far stretch. To say that an Anthropologist could contribute to a Commander's knowledge of the local culture/populace and that Commander could use that knowledge to better target the enemy, that's certainly plausible. If the Anthropologist is trying to understand the relative level of poverty (see Marcus Griffin's recent blog entry) so that the Army can better target and support the most vulnerable segments of the population, what happens, if he/she happens to see something suspicious in the course of his research? He would be obliged to report it, I imagine. And what if that piece of information leads to the successful targeting and killing of an insurgent? |
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#6 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 530
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I think it's a mistake to focus on "kill/detain." The HTTs do lot of good just making troops aware that it's a bad idea to have male soldiers searching the women's quarters.
If "hearts and minds" is more than just a buzz phrase (and I think it is), then it has to be about obtaining active civilian commitment to the Iraqi government. That won't come about until we understand the Iraqi culture(s) and reflect that understanding across the board in our speech and behavior. That understanding won't happen without the support of the anthropologists.
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John Wolfsberger, Jr. An unruffled person with some useful skills. |
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#7 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,181
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- it boils down to the mindset that refuses to believe the Military is interested in peace and stability, that willfully chooses to see military personnel as knuckle dragging sociopaths, despite the abundance of evidence in total contradiction to such ignorant beliefs coming from such educated people....blah, blah, blah
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#8 | ||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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Hi Folks,
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In the case of the HTTs, the observations will have an effect that will, IMO, inevitably lead to deaths. The moral crux, at least at the operational level, is on whether these will be a reduced number of deaths from the number that would have taken place without the HTT. Note that this is totally different from a refusal to work for the HTTs because of the strategic moral crux, i.e. whether or not the war in Iraq is a "just war". Quote:
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Marc
__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ |
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#9 |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,390
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#10 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ Last edited by marct; 10-29-2007 at 05:09 PM. Reason: Added link |
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#11 |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,390
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great indicator of why World Government should be diligently avoided. At least a large number of gaggles of politicians will do less damage than one big gaggle...
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#12 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ |
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#13 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 715
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I find myself rather disinclined towards the HTT concept. While I am not entirely averse to a small research presence in-theatre, I'm not certain that HTT's would result in benefits that would outweigh the risks of putting anthropologists and other researchers in situations where the natives, so to speak, might get a little restless. And even if the HTT's had military escorts, even some of the time, this might just aggravate certain sensibilities, on both sides. Officers should develop a practical grasp of local life, culture, and conditions; that many may not, never mind the Other Ranks, is a problem that can only be addressed at home, in the education system, which seems to serve admirably to atrophy and close the minds of the young. If anything, I would recommend that a few of the better minds on the HTT's tour around Military Units providing a little practical guidance on ethnography to the officers and men. It's not much, but maybe a little more useful and a little safer, than going out to survey a society still at war. And a good time was had by all! Well, most. Last edited by Norfolk; 12-28-2007 at 10:40 PM. |
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#14 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rancho La Espada, Blanchard, OK
Posts: 883
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Personally, I have no problem with HTTs, anthropologists and other social scientists at the operational level so long as their efforts are focused on trying to reduce casualties among the innocent. (Boy what an oversimplification but you get my drift.) On the strategic level, each individual must decide whether he sees the war as just or not - if, not then resign or don't join up. (I realize that a soldier is somewhat more limited regarding thos kinds of choices but not completely.)
In the 80s, I ran into a card carrying anthropologist who was a CIA employee working psychological ops for El Salvador. He was the author of the anti-landmine theme that was expressed in the most effective propaganda poster I ever saw - a beautiful little girl dressed in a white formal dress on crutches because her lower leg had been blown off by a mine. The caption read, "And her human rights?" ("Y sus derechos humanos?") He was certainly on the side of the angels, in my book and his postercontributed indirectly to the success of the anti-landmine treaty - an unintended consequence, perhaps. |
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#15 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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. Then again, unlike a lot of my confreres, I actually do know how to shoot and use a blade.In addition to the strategic level moral decision, I think there is also a pragmatic moral crux. In the case of the Iraq war, I, personally, believe it to be an unjust war. At the same time, there are many things happening in the world that I believe to be unjust, and that doesn't stop me from playing Don Quixote to them . We don't live in a perfect world, and that means that we have to clean up the excrement politicians leave lying around at times before more people die. I would have volunteered for the HTTs already (if they'd take me ), but it looks like they only want red-blooded US Type Americans - prejudice I tell you .Marc
__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ |
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#16 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rancho La Espada, Blanchard, OK
Posts: 883
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Isn't that enough?
![]() I agree with you on the databases with real names. Pragmatically, over the long haul it doesn't help the war effort to maintain that kind of database. different story for intel types but theirs are more selective anyway (or should be). Ceaning up after politicos seems to be an occupational hazard on these pages: Malcom Nance (aka Abu Buckwheat), Stu Harrington, John Nagl, Dave Kilcullen, and all the gang in the Small Wars Council. But without some good politicians all our cleanup efforts would be in vain. ![]() Cheers JohnT |
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#17 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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in the ongoing culture war...
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__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ |
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#18 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 2,497
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Sad to say I didn't see much of an expose here...more just a collection of innuendo and invictive. Ah, well.....all in a day's unbiased research, I guess....
__________________
"On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare." T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War |
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#19 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 3,161
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Hi Steve,
Well, if you check ut the very end, you will see the case for plagiarism in detail. I do have some problems with it, mainly the old "common knowledge" rule seems to have been forgotten. I think what truly bugs me is that the references didn't have to be taken out - they could easily have been left in, especially for the Chicago edition!
__________________
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat... Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D. Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies, Senior Research Fellow, The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA Carleton University http://marctyrrell.com/ |
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#20 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 2,497
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But it just gets my hackles up when attacks like this come out against a military publication while the same 'academic sources' remain silent regarding cases within their own ranks (Ward Churchill springs immediately to mind, but there are others...Ambrose for another). Been a long Tuesday already, and that just spiked the ol' blood pressure and triggered the "need beer" sensor....
__________________
"On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare." T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War |
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