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#1 | |
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,875
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The Demise of Secretary Wynne
By J. Bernhard "Jon" Compton, Small Wars Journal Blog Quote:
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Small Wars Journal |
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#2 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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Right. Tom
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#3 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,390
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Couldn't get enough sense out of it to comment. Does the Army not understand the AF -- or does it downplay the AF due to political game required by our dysfunctional Congress? A 1,000% increase in munitions released???
Then all those things Tom correctly illustrates. Plus this comment: Quote:
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#4 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rocky Mtn Empire
Posts: 381
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Mike Wynne is an Army officer of the Rick Atkinson's storied West Point Class of '66
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#5 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 970
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There was so much extrapolation to wild conclusions I couldn't follow the logic of the first half.
He makes the fundamental mistake that somehow we failed 2003-2006 to win Iraq because we weren't killing enough insurgents by dropping bombs? That bombs "forced" the awakening? The analysis fails on so many levels it saddens me. "Troops only increased by 20% and bombings by 400%, so the bombings MUST be behind it!" Why is the army covering this up?!? ![]() To say his friend Andres is an AF fan is like describing Ann Coulter as a mainline Republican. He's the Ann Coulter of the USAF. Andres truly frightened me with his pro-AF speech at a conference I attended last year "if we would only allow the Iraqis to drop more bombs we would win Iraq", and "our soldiers inflame popular resistance, as they stand on street corners and harass the local women." It was so bad the major media news network reporter I was sitting next to with lots of time in Iraq (3+ years as lead for her network in Baghdad) was calling "bullshit". After the speech, I confronted Dr. Andres about several of his pejoritve quotes characterizing ground forces, and told him straight out "You're dangerous and you scare me". Too close to shades of Wolfowitz/Feith and their dreamy theories, and lack of anything but ivory tower experience on the ground for me. The fact that someone with such opinions willing to air them in such a forum was a special assistant to the SecAF disappointed me more. I guess it is a harbinger - if he was characteristic of the thoughts around the USAF leadership then it's no wonder Gates cleaned house.Anyway, I thought the article's second half was an accurate diagnosis of the situation - the USAF's "organizational" attitude turns off the other services and doesn't help win its arguments - as evidenced by this article. The "The Army and Marines don't understand airpower" argument is lame. The conspiracy theory regarding a coverup of the "real" surge success data is even sillier. Call the waaahbulance. I don't know what (if any) experience he has, but the Army and Marines are doing fairly well waging a joint fight with all of the tools in the kit. I just get the sense that the USAF sees itself as first among the services, and is throwing a tantrum because OEF/OIF have forced it into the back seat for awhile.
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Who is Cavguy? Last edited by Cavguy; 07-15-2008 at 04:56 AM. |
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#6 |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,390
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..............
Last edited by Ken White; 07-15-2008 at 04:53 AM. Reason: Deleted by Ken White |
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#7 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 970
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The author says:
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1) Source for allegations (beside Andres) 2) Source that the all seeing predators were finding "insurgents" 3) Source that the Army doesn't acknowledge airpower's contribution? 4) What is "classic COIN from the air?" My bookshelf is light on any works or demonstrated successes of "COIN" from the air. And it doesn't have anything to do with forcing the combat units into COPs 24/7 and into constant contact in the neighborhoods increased combat with the insurgents, which increased the need for airsrikes? I'd like to see some source/authority/analysis rather than just expository statements based off a few conversations with USAF fanbois.
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Who is Cavguy? Last edited by Cavguy; 07-15-2008 at 04:59 AM. |
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#8 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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This is from the Ebird of 14 July in advance of the 21 Jul edition of AF Times. It is an interview with the former Secretary of the AF. You cand read some of it now online at Wynne takes aim at Gates over firing, reasons I put it here because the former secretary's view of what has happened and is happening is interesting. Note the use of the term "police action" almost in the sense of 1950s Korea. Also his focus is on ability to use kinetic, lethal force. the proposition to "reachback" in a video screen COIN effort is somewhat understandable but also somewhat unreal. I am curious what he would see as administrative.
I do agree with the comment on 52 inch TVs ![]() Quote:
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#9 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 870
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Well as one of the few resident zoomies here let me say that Dr. Andres and Mr. Compton do not represent a lot of us in their views - they're more akin to that embarrassing uncle you wish was related to someone else.
This is just another example of the kind of counterproductive "criticism" some air power advocates will stoop to. There is plenty to justify the role of air power in all its forms without denigrating the other services while overemphasizing the role of your own. The irony is that is exactly what the author accuses the Army of doing. I'm always wary of vague and sweeping generalizations and this essay is chock full of them. The "Army does not understand airpower" is the worst such generalization. Then there is the portrayal of Gen. Petraeus, the (former) JOINT force commander, as essentially a parochial stooge. How can the author here argue on one hand that airpower was the crucial element in the "surge" while arguing on the other that the Army doesn't understand airpower when it's primarily Army officers that are runnning the show in Iraq? Add cognitive dissonance to the many problems with this essay. |
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#10 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sandbox
Posts: 3,728
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Quote:
Thank you for that appraisal. I posted mine first last night and I asked myself whether I was being too harsh. My criticisms match yours exactly. Tom
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#11 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,390
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Perhaps it could be said the current SecDef does not suffer fools gladly. If so, good for him. |
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#12 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 970
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Quote:
Hacksaw made a good point when discussing the speech I referenced above - why did the Air Force send him to make such a partisan speech at a high profile conference? That sent a message about the USAF leadership's view in and of itself. BTW, MG Dunlap was the other major USAF presenter, besides a COL from the CAOC in Qatar. I just acquried a USAF Major as a neighbor, she confirmed what many have said to me from the USAF recently - there is a senior leader/airman disconnect right now. Your perspective?
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Who is Cavguy? |
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#13 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 530
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Quote:
![]() There was a recent article on this campaign in one of the military history magazines. If I can find it, I'll post the reference.
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John Wolfsberger, Jr. An unruffled person with some useful skills. |
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#14 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 970
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There's some bad juju headed down that road once you start peeling back the surface. I guess I would be hesitant in calling that strategy "classic COIN". The goal wasn't to prevent insurgency, it was to protect the force until withdrawal.
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Who is Cavguy? |
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#15 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 530
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Quote:
But then again, I think that "COIN from the air" is like step 2, below:
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John Wolfsberger, Jr. An unruffled person with some useful skills. |
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#16 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 870
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I would say there is definitely a disconnect. It runs from how the AF publicly portrays itself all the way down to uniforms.
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#17 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Slapout,Al.
Posts: 2,620
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For all.
The Air Force calls it Air Control Theory, there version of COIN or Pennies From Heaven link to a good paper below. There are others out there but they all say about the same thing.http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchr...in00/corum.htm What the Army is doing with ODIN might well end up being COIN from the Air invented by the Army and the Air Force is not to happy about it. Last edited by slapout9; 07-16-2008 at 12:46 AM. |
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#18 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: transitioning to AFSPC
Posts: 297
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Quote:
The "police action" comment is to be expected. The AF sees lethal airpower as the answer to all war scenarios, whether they be conventional or unconventional. As I see it, the fact son the ground show that airpower, while agressively supporting the fight, has not been the deciding factor in our recent sucesses. This does not bode well for those that argue airpower's infallibility in war. Thus the change from war to "police action." If airpower had been the determitive factor, rest assured he'd have said war. but what the heck do I know, I'm just a lawyer...
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-john bellflower "You must, therefore know that there are two means of fighting: one according to the laws, the other with force; the first way is proper to man, the second to beasts; but because the first, in many cases, is not sufficient, it becomes necessary to have recourse to the second." -- Niccolo Machiavelli (from The Prince) Last edited by LawVol; 07-17-2008 at 12:06 AM. |
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#19 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 726
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I've been considering this post for some time IOT word it correctly.
I have no disagreements with any of the above dissent IRT the AF's future. However, it must be addressed that they are a combat multiplier. I would submit that we should credit them with their role as a supporting component in the surge. I can comment on four of the more kinetic operations of the surge(specifically November2006-June2007): Turki Village/Diyala River Valley (my unit, 5-73 Recon) and Najaf/Baqubah (Strykers out of Fort Lewis). Furthermore, it must be understood that these situations were esentially counter-state denied areas (i.e. areas that the enemy controlled and CF/GOI did not regularly patrol). These situations were unique to the time period. The AF brought to bear the combined weight of the American military power in certain almost linear conflicts (e.g. in Turki Village (JAN 2007), 38 x 2000 lbs JDAMs in under two hours on an entrechment of Wahabi fortiments. In a prior conflict, we were throwing hand grenades back and forth. This time, the AF reigned supreme.) However (again), it must be addressed that these were supportive roles. Enemy fortifications were not identified solely by Predator drones; in 90% of the PID, enemy activity was identified by covert reconnaissance, movement to contact, OR specific intelligence gathered from the populace. Regardless, I love the AF as long as they don't make any assumptions on their superiority over the boys on the ground. |
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#20 | |
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i pwnd ur ooda loop
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: North Shore of Indiana
Posts: 1,816
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Quote:
As of today I really really really realize that. In the morning I'll tell you about my meeting after the panel session.
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Sam Liles Selil Blog Don't forget to duck Secret Squirrel The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives. |
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