Quote on military portion of counterinsurgency

Granite_State · 11-13-2008

There's a quote I've seen probably a dozen times, about the military percentage of a counterinsurgency solution may be 20% or 80%, but it's the first 20% or 80%. Anyone happen to know the exact quote, and who said it (I'm thinking a Malaya Emergency figure for some reason)? Much appreciated.

JT Clark · 11-13-2008

Templer mentioned that the shooting end of the business was around 25% but it was Galula that coined (I know- that was terrible) the 80:20 ratio.

You'll find two articles here from some switched-on Aussies

that quote it.

http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/kilcullen1.pdf

http://smallwarsjournal.com/mag/docs...70-hammond.pdf

Cavguy · 11-13-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT Clark

Templer mentioned that the shooting end of the business was around 25% but it was Galula that coined (I know- that was terrible) the 80:20 ratio.

You'll find two articles here from some switched-on Aussies

that quote it.

http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/kilcullen1.pdf

http://smallwarsjournal.com/mag/docs...70-hammond.pdf

Actually Galula didn't originate that, if you read the footnotes in his book, he was quoting a Chinese general.

Niel

JT Clark · 11-13-2008

...never where ones for detail.

Granite_State · 11-13-2008

Thanks guys. But anyone know where the part about the military/security ingredient being the FIRST 20% comes from?

max161 · 11-14-2008

"in war, the moral is to the physical as three is to one." I think extrapolating that you can say that in COIN the political is to the military as ten is to one - of course Galula and others said 80/20 but I think 10 to 1 is more powerful of a statement.

SWJED · 11-14-2008

Something to think about concerning COIN - Dave Kilcullen brought this up last year during his COIN seminar at Quantico - even if you buy the 80 - 20 that does not mean the military does 20% - the military conducts many activities that can be regarded as part of the 80% political during COIN.

Ron Humphrey · 11-14-2008

Whenever I get to looking at the pol/mil balance it occurs to me that it reminds me of those 3D holographic pics where what you see up front is a bunch of the same but once you look closely enough the other pics start to come out.

Can anyone tell me what percentage of those pictures are the front/back

Mike in Hilo · 11-14-2008

Granite State: He may not have been the first to say it even in the Vietnam context, but John Vann was fond of urging the advisers to remember that while security may be only 10% of the problem or it may be 90%, "but remember, it's always the first 10%--or the first 90%"....

Cheers,
Mike.

Ken White · 11-14-2008

Main Force or Local Force?

Granite_State · 11-14-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike in Hilo

Granite State: He may not have been the first to say it even in the Vietnam context, but John Vann was fond of urging the advisers to remember that while security may be only 10% of the problem or it may be 90%, "but remember, it's always the first 10%--or the first 90%"....

Cheers,
Mike.

Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for. Much appreciated.

11-13-2008	#1
Granite_State Council Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Camp Pendleton, CA Posts: 304	Quote on military portion of counterinsurgency There's a quote I've seen probably a dozen times, about the military percentage of a counterinsurgency solution may be 20% or 80%, but it's the first 20% or 80%. Anyone happen to know the exact quote, and who said it (I'm thinking a Malaya Emergency figure for some reason)? Much appreciated.

11-13-2008	#2
JT Clark Council Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 28	Galula Templer mentioned that the shooting end of the business was around 25% but it was Galula that coined (I know- that was terrible) the 80:20 ratio. You'll find two articles here from some switched-on Aussies that quote it. http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/kilcullen1.pdf http://smallwarsjournal.com/mag/docs...70-hammond.pdf

11-13-2008	#4
JT Clark Council Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 28	those Aussies ...never where ones for detail.

11-14-2008	#6
max161 Council Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort McNair, Washington, DC Posts: 128	Napoleon said "in war, the moral is to the physical as three is to one." I think extrapolating that you can say that in COIN the political is to the military as ten is to one - of course Galula and others said 80/20 but I think 10 to 1 is more powerful of a statement. __________________ David S. Maxwell "Irregular warfare is far more intellectual than a bayonet charge." T.E. Lawrence

11-14-2008	#7
SWJED Small Wars Journal Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,956	Something to think about concerning COIN - Dave Kilcullen brought this up last year during his COIN seminar at Quantico - even if you buy the 80 - 20 that does not mean the military does 20% - the military conducts many activities that can be regarded as part of the 80% political during COIN. __________________ Small Wars Journal

11-14-2008	#9
Mike in Hilo Council Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hilo, HI Posts: 102	Granite State: He may not have been the first to say it even in the Vietnam context, but John Vann was fond of urging the advisers to remember that while security may be only 10% of the problem or it may be 90%, "but remember, it's always the first 10%--or the first 90%".... Cheers, Mike. Last edited by Mike in Hilo; 11-14-2008 at 02:31 AM.

11-14-2008	#10
Ken White Council Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 8,058	Didn't that depend on whether your neighbors were Main Force or Local Force?

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