27 Combat Skills

[jcustis]

Posting this here after I saw it over at Lightfighter.net:

I´ve been reading a swedish book from the 60´s and the author is refering to an american study about combat skills. A bunch of combat veterans from WWII, Korea and Vietnam was asked to rank 27 different combat/soldier skills for infantrymen. The most preffered(?) skill was "handling firearms" to no27 "driving a vehicle"

Anyone know the text of which he is talking about?

[Ken White]

such a thing -- the urge to do lists of foolishness is apparently overwhelming (I have a Wife...). My first thought was it sounded like some research project for a War Game developer rather than anything to do with real combat applicability...

In any event, I'm suspicious of such lists, they almost never account for METT-TC and in combat, one size absolutely does not fit all. I can think of scraps where no more than five or ten skills would be needed and others where over a hundred pile up real quickly. Lists usually leave a lot to be desired. For example, "Handling firearms" does not address accuracy and selection of the right weapon for the job at hand. "Driving a vehicle" is fine. Wheels or tracks? I've known a lot of good 1/4ton drivers who couldn't handle a 5 ton; lot of wheeled guys who cannot drive a track...

I also believe that from WW II, guys from the Pacific (vehicles? not likely) would have a list that differed from northern Europe -- and both would differ from North Africa. Korea would be slightly different than those; Viet Nam yet again different. Synthesizing that to produce 'a' list would be an exercise in reductionism.

Most likely, some relatively ignorant civilian produced a list and asked people (to include former Cooks...) to rank order things. He or she then averaged / meaned the answers and the final list would thus be suspect due to, among other things, the way the items were worded. "Handling firearms" does not sound like something most combat veterans I know would say, yet it would be if offered one many would say was important...

[slapout9]

Originally Posted by jcustis

Posting this here after I saw it over at Lightfighter.net:



Anyone know the text of which he is talking about?

jcustis: Don't know of the exact document but I have a hunch it may have something to do with Systems Analysis applied to the soldier. There was a lot of this done during that time period and I have spent a good deal of time trying to find them. Harvard supposedly did one on "Violence Processing" to reduce combat and the skills of combat to the most basic level possible. Hope this helps.

[Schmedlap]

Originally Posted by slapout9

Harvard supposedly did one on "Violence Processing" to reduce combat and the skills of combat to the most basic level possible.

Was that the origin of "shoot, move, and communicate"?

[slapout9]

Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Was that the origin of "shoot, move, and communicate"?

You got it man. Except communicate had a broader sense than it does today. It would be closer to communicating with an environment(AO) and the system could detect any unwanted person or entity, then communicate that to the appropiate combat system.

[Ken White]

but it looks like the other end of your lake is getting connected. In a bad way...

LINK.

[Surferbeetle]

From the wikipedia entry on the Mexican Drug War

According to the National Drug Intelligence Center, Mexican cartels are the predominant smugglers and wholesale distributors of South American cocaine and Mexico-produced marijuana, methamphetamine and heroin. Mexico's cartels have existed for some time, but have become increasingly powerful in recent years with the demise of the Medellín and Cali cartels in Colombia. Closure of the cocaine trafficking route through Florida also pushed cocaine traffic to Mexico, increasing the role of Mexican cartels in cocaine trafficking. The Mexican cartels are expanding their control over the distribution of these drugs in areas controlled by Colombian and Dominican criminal groups, and now believed to include most of the U.S.A.[25]. The East Coast of the United States (mainly New York and New Jersey have seen little dominance of the Mexican drug cartels. No longer just middlemen for Colombian producers, they are now powerful organized-crime syndicates that dominate the drug trade in the Americas. According to the FBI, Mexican cartels focus only on wholesale distribution, leaving retail sales of illicit drugs to street gangs. The Mexican cartels reportedly work with multiple gangs and claim not to take sides in U.S. gang conflicts.

Mexican cartels control large swaths of Mexican territory and dozens of municipalities, and they exercise increasing influence in Mexican electoral politics.[26] The cartels are waging violent turf battle over control of key smuggling corridors from Nuevo Laredo, to San Diego. Mexican cartels employ hitmen and groups of enforcers, known as sicarios. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration reports that the Mexican drug cartels operating today along the border are far more sophisticated and dangerous than any other organized criminal group in U.S. law enforcement history.[25] The cartels utilize grenade launchers, automatic weapons, body armor and sometimes, Kevlar helmets.[27][28][29]

[slapout9]

Originally Posted by Ken White

but it looks like the other end of your lake is getting connected. In a bad way...

LINK.

Ken, it will get worse before it gets better. The Birmingham area has some serious problems as do Montgomery,and Mobile.....I tired to tell them


Surferbeetle yes shoot, move and communicate still applies and incidentally much of what President Obama is doing is what General Gavin suggested years ago. Central America and South America are our neighbors and could be our greatest allies if we acted right towards them...we shall see.

[William F. Owen]

Originally Posted by Ken White

In any event, I'm suspicious of such lists, they almost never account for METT-TC and in combat, one size absolutely does not fit all. I can think of scraps where no more than five or ten skills would be needed and others where over a hundred pile up real quickly. Lists usually leave a lot to be desired. For example, "Handling firearms" does not address accuracy and selection of the right weapon for the job at hand. "Driving a vehicle" is fine. Wheels or tracks? I've known a lot of good 1/4ton drivers who couldn't handle a 5 ton; lot of wheeled guys who cannot drive a track...

What Ken said... exactly right.

Personally, I believe there is a debate to had over some skills, and who should be trained in them. EG: All soldiers should be able to map read. You need two snipers per Platoon, etc etc etc. Language would also be there.

But that is not addressed by compiling such a list.

[Surferbeetle]

Originally Posted by slapout9

Surferbeetle yes shoot, move and communicate still applies and incidentally much of what President Obama is doing is what General Gavin suggested years ago. Central America and South America are our neighbors and could be our greatest allies if we acted right towards them...we shall see.

Slap,

I am in agreement, Latin America is an interesting place and given the demographics of the US we could certainly do better. From the human terrain vantage point there are many layers and much history to consider. Some interesting relevant acronyms include OAS, UNASUR, and CARICOM. The President is wise to engage this region, and his most recent effort has started things moving.

Wilf,

The beauty of 'shoot, move, & communicate' is that is the essence of soldiering distilled. Beyond this trinity ( ) memorizing lists of skills, as opposed to learning and using them, has limited effectiveness As the US Military rediscovers that we do indeed need to be able to effectively communicate in foreign languages I am heartened...there are many countries that I have been to in which their soldiers were/are able to speak two or more languages and it would be of benefit to require this of all our NCO's, WO's, and Officers.

Best,

Steve