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#141 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
Posts: 3,947
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But since you ask: The aim of the Operation in Gaza was to set forth the Israeli Government's policy of a zero tolerance to armed action against the State of Israel. The basic message to Hamas - and Hezbollah - was that armed action will merely reap more armed action against you. It was to emphasise and demonstrate the failure of a "rocket policy." - and it was never meant to be the last Operation. - 99.9% reduction of rockets from Lebanon since 2006, and 95% reduction from Gaza since Cast Lead. Sadly, this is most probably temporary and everyone knows there will be more Operations, until the populations of Gaza, The West Bank, and the Southern Lebanon, want to live in peace, in their own states, and recognise Israel's right to exist. Having said that, the West Bank is looking pretty good right now. Now that may have all been cloaked in some very odd language, for obvious reasons, but hey! This is politics.
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Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!" ![]() - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya. - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya. Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition |
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#142 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Barsoom, as a fact!
Posts: 946
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I was not talking about Castel Lead operation but the blocus and disruption of Gaza social services. Especially (sorry I do not remember the year, I believe it was 2004), the one that targeted government offices and had for objective to destroy physically all material capacities. This did harm Hamas capacities but did also harm the legitimacy. Especially as Hamas was an elected body. (Not saying I support Hamas). And that the link with the threat: we have to do what we preach. If we want rule of law: we have to follow law. If we want to build trust: then we have to provide better services. In war among the people or people centric COIN, the statement 10-2=20 does apply for civilians. The faillure of Iraq at its early stage came from there, nowhere else. Civilian will go for what is the most profitable for them and also will follow the rational: I take what I know and trust (even if it is hard dictatorship) rather try another flavour of a "too well known"/"unknow potential" failure. |
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#143 | |||
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
Posts: 3,947
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Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!" ![]() - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya. - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya. Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition |
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#144 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Barsoom, as a fact!
Posts: 946
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So let’s not try to build ministries capacities and the rest. This is useless and a big waste of money, energy and good people. Ministries are crap… Let them be crap. Time will tell. The war is divided into survive, rebuild, normality for civilians. That is the way it is. NOWHERE will you find freedom of speech, democracy and what so ever among post war population. The survive part: it is the NGO as ICRC, MSF, CARE… that do take care of it. It is the usual open conflict humanitarian assistance. The rebuild part is where we fail every time as we want to jump from year 0 to XXI century with in few months. Let’s stop fooling our selves we can do it just like that. State building is not a science, it is barely a new born art based on not so well mastered soft sciences. Quote:
The overuse of Rostrow development theory is that we merge political development and economical development. To be clear, liberal economy and regulated trade does not necessary goes with full participative democracy. I’m not a kindergarden dictator fan! My point is that we want countries as Afghanistan to do the economical and political Jump/taker off at the same time. As far as I know that did not work that way and never did. You first have economical take off leading to strong developed economy then you have democracy being put in place. Look Iran. That is exactly what the regime is facing: total disruption between population expectation due to a not so bad economy and the Mullahs in power. Where we forget Rostrow is that if he is wrong in melting politics and economy (at least, the vision of linear development is also false), he is right on the take off point. Samir Amin Theory of centre and periphery (with Immanuel Wallerstein, Giovanni Arrighi) is the base of oil drop practices. They pointed out that first you need a centre that takes off and will tract peripheries. The main problem for the centre is to find a way to take off without passing through the mercantile phase which consists in accumulation of richness through pillage of neighbouring countries. What Rwanda did and is doing right now. In fact aid is a substitute for that phase. Basically, money is not a weapon, is a protective mean to reach a level of development without having to spoil another country to rebuild the one you just invaded. The problem we do face in misplacing money and not coordinating its use is to give too much on governance and too little in development. Also, as we want to have a large cover of all needs, we tend to spend even less that little everywhere. We should spend more on humanitarian/development with a strong coordination controlled through money/”donor like UN agencies role” rather trying to vaporise a little everywhere. But this does not change the fact that this cannot come without security. I am not a big fan of security first but security is both a pre requirement and a limit. But security, a political tool, just as development, needs to be use wisely with high moral references so we avoid doing stupid things that will impact the development/humanitarian efforts. (Having high humanitarian moral standards does not forbid you to be political, far from it). And concerning elections, probably starting by the central state is not the solution. May be we should go for local elections first, building proximity democracy before nation wild democracy. It is easier to teach the game to small scale communities about issues they feel concern about rather than looking to large scale stuff that no one cares about and is by definition corrupted or unlegitimate in the first times. |
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#145 | |||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,111
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...and I appreciate the references.
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Sapere Aude |
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#146 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 825
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This article (Afghanistan: A White Elephant Called the Ring Road), rolls up a lot of issues about security, roads, and advertised good deeds.
http://www.indepthnews.net/news/news...3:29:19&key2=1 In it, Matt Nasuti, PRT City Management Adviser, argues that the Ring Road is a mess: Poorly conceived, poorly built, and unsecurable. A boon to the Taliban. Too expensive and unnecessary to Afghans at this point in their development. Moreover, what we learned about the Appalachian Road building projects- a road goes two ways. Built to spur Appalachian internal development, instead, they were the highway for disinvestment: goods flooding in from outside, people flooding out... unintended consequences. Here, according to the article, the road has been a boon to the Taliban (graft, security fees, free movement of insurgents, fixing our forces to defend it, etc..., and threatens to inundate the local economies with influx of cheap foreign goods. Sure would be good to think these things through---ahead of time. I always shudder when I see Loius Berger attached to the planning and implementation of anything. |
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#147 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 825
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New SSI release:
GUIDE TO REBUILDING PUBLIC SECTOR SERVICES IN STABILITY OPERATIONS: A ROLE FOR THE MILITARY Best work I have seen to date on the subject. http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute...mary.cfm?q=945 Most pubs on this subject, including one released this week by the Institute for Peace, are full of slogans and inter-agency politics. The SSI Guide is a practical, how-to-guide that burrows deeply and effectively in the restoration of public services for military/post-conflict purposes. Great work. It's not about good deeds, but about making things work again in close cooperation with local national, provincial and municipal staff and systems. Steve Steve |
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#148 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Slapout,Al.
Posts: 4,453
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STP, we talked about that on another thread and that is why I said linking the System togather should be one of the LAST things you do with an unstable system. |
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#149 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: REMFing it up in DC
Posts: 250
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I followed and thought about this thread a lot this summer, and I kept coming back to a fundamental problem with "hearts and minds" - not the pejorative use of the term, but what Uboat earlier described as convincing the population (1) our victory - and thus them helping us - is in their best interests, and (2) we are going to win. This sentiment, first articulated as I heard it by David Kilcullen, is underwritten essentially by rational man theory. People choose from different sets of choices on the basis of what will maximize their utility (serve their interests). Straightforward enough, and it underpins most of classical microeconomics.
Now, as far as sociologists or anthropologists are concerned, I have no idea what the current state of theory is in that realm, but a lot of economics has moved beyond rational man theory, or at least moved into explaining why it fails. Behavioral economics, one of the more recent developments in economics, is in large part devoted to explaining the disparity (albeit still mathematically) between the choices actors make and the choices they SHOULD make. I'm sure MarcT could better explain heuristics and anomalies but these disparities pervade every level of human decision-making, whether it is a person spending his money wisely or the Joint Chiefs assessing U.S. strategy. Obviously, not all choices made by actors are going to actually maximize their utility. Moreover, our calculations of preferred outcome, especially when viewing this across cultures, are often wrong. Heuristics - experienced based learning - really plays into this. At a micro level, one can see plenty of instances of people refusing the prescribed treatments for the "accidental guerrilla" syndrome, in terms of winning hearts and minds, whether for religious reasons, pashtunwali, or something even less tangible. Even if we correctly gauge the outcome the people will support, we may make the wrong choice on how to get there. Many commentators have suggested that it was not the staunch commitment of the Bush administration to continuing the mission in Iraq that drove Sunni reversal; but the 2006 elections and the realization that the U.S. may not long stay in Iraq, and that if that withdrawal occurred, the Sunnis were going to be crushed by the Shiite blocs. This unintentional hint of a pending change swayed the perception of interest and optimal outcome. Of course, "hearts and minds" and rational man theory doesn't have to hold true for everyone, but the implication is that it does have to apply to a majority to work. And I've heard more than a couple economists chuckle about COIN theory banking on what is an in-part discarded model of how people act. . . Matt
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"Give a good leader very little and he will succeed. Give a mediocrity a great deal and he will fail." - General George C. Marshall |
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#150 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,058
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All of us constantly make choices that are not 'in our interest.' Just look at federal elections... ![]() Serious comment. Both parts. |
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#151 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 825
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The purpose of a well-devised planning process is to identify and consider the major consequences (including unintentional ones).
When we end up being the great decider with little input, our decisions, not surprisingly, tend to miss the mark, or spawn significant unconsidered unintended consequences. That's how you get all the waste. Actually, at MND-North in 2008, the Div Eng (and the whole div staff) had, in effect, stood up the last Diyala govt, and brought with them a lot of built-in knowledge from multiple tours. This cut down on a lot of waste, and led them to ask the right questions, including of local folks. But it often put them in conflict with the brigade battlespace owner who was trying to build, build, build. The new SSI guide really gets to the point of how to do it by using the early Basrah example where the military did, in fact, do a pretty good job. Some really good lessons to learn. Steve Last edited by davidbfpo; 10-13-2009 at 06:45 PM. |
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#152 | ||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,877
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Steve as you know, the Kurdish issue is very complicated. Just today on the national news, one of our general officers said the Kurds remain the primary destablizing factor within Iraq.
My counterpoint to yours is that perhaps our focus on the Kurds is coming back to bite us in the tail? We worked with the Kurds during the initial invasion, but like many other cases where we employed unconventional warfare it has come back to haunt us later (Afghanistan being another example) Posted by Surferbeetle, Quote:
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#153 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 825
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Bill:
Sounds like you got the same briefing I did before being seconded to the UN DIBS Team. The numbers and history, as explained by Gareth Stansfield, are not any clearer for Kurdish hegemony in Kirkuk, etc..., than for Turkmen, and others. But there are important stories of sadness and oppression on many sides. It's complicated. History shows that every 20 years or so, the Kurds build up pressure toward a serious offensive---always working toward autonomy. As Bill says, it is not driven by an interest in other minorities. Iraq's recent history is painted in the colors of the Kurdish autonomy movement---and not just re: Sadaam. Strategic patience, that great skill the US lacks, is always in play in these areas. Also, as Bill notes, Turkey and Iran, especially, have significant interests in Kurdish plans and activities. Steve |
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#154 | |||||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,111
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As a result of working with the electrical engineers I found on both sides of the Green Line, during OIF1 (summer and onwards), I was able to regularly compare and contrast electrical grids and associated infrastructure (keep in mind that my background is civil not electrical). As described to me, the UNDP’s longterm electrical engineering work was (partially?, fully?) funded as a result of the UN resolutions I previously cited. The contrast on each side of the Green Line, as you note, was a stark one. From the UN Information Service: Report Shows "Meaningful" Impact of UN Projects in Iraq Quote:
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Sapere Aude Last edited by Surferbeetle; 10-13-2009 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Clarity and links... |
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#155 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,111
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Bill, IMHO and experience oil spot theory allows for development, not just humanitarian assistance, during a conflict. Here are a couple of clear open source examples of development undertaken during conflict conditions ala the three block war concept.
Backgrounder #31. The Fight for Mosul by Eric Hamilton. Here is a link regarding the ENRP program in the Kurdistan region from a UNDP Energy and Environment webpage Quote:
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Sapere Aude Last edited by Surferbeetle; 10-13-2009 at 06:20 AM. |
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#156 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 825
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Beetle:
I'm good with the Kurd representations. People forget that the historical map of Kurdistan really begins with the road to Kermanshah (Iran), and that a lot of the anti-Kurd actions against the Kurds by Sadaam were because of Iranian relations. Like Afghanistan, it is a big complex world once you get up into any of those hills. Go back to Sassanian Empire times and Baghdad to Jalalabad were all one big happy empire (sort of). I was always very interested in the Yazedis, and some of the micro-sects, some so small and isolated in their villages that they could literally not communicate with the next town. The Jews were, in fact a big presence in the major towns of Basrah, Baghdad and Kirkuk. Most left in 1950 for Isreal, but still have reparations claims swirling around. But the ref to Mosul. There were two Mosuls in my world: the one before Sunnis/AQI were pushed out of Baghdad, and the one after. Mosul is the shock absorber for Baghdad stability (such as it is), and is hard to understand the scope of damage in 2008. Steve |
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#157 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Barsoom, as a fact!
Posts: 946
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Also, in the same country, you will have two different phase for development/humanitarian actions: Continum and contigum. Continum phase: in some areas, for many reasons, most of the time not under our control, the situation evolves in the good sens. From disaster you go to humanitarian, recovery then development. And you do not know why but it goes fine. Contigum: it is the fact that if in place A things goes in the good sens, in place B, in the very same country, things either stay the same (disaster/humanitarian or cannot go further than recovery). This has been experienced by every one every where. It is just that some places are centre and others are peripheries. But do not mistake the fact that centres can be: trackting economical centres and will generate development. OR can be centres of violence: trackting the place from disaster to fubar. Then peripheries will: - in a econimical center: either follow at lower speed the economical development OR either separate and insecurity will increase. (the choice is not ours). In both cases, security will remain the first issue as you need to protect the center. - in a violence center: periphery can either follow and become insecure OR separate and become more secure. In both cases security comes first. But in the second issue, it is quite important to contain the effects of violence centre and support recovery/development. The aim is to turn the periphery into an economic centre. I know, easy to say, much complexe to implement. I face the problem daily. The main problem is that much efforts are actually focussed on violence centers or peripheries in the attempt to lower insecurity through social/economical projects. This works (sometimes) but the over focus on security is harming the whole effort. While in economical centres and periphery, actors tend to hurry to shift to evelopment and creat a gap that may creat insecurity. This mainly comes from the fact that non military actors are driven by the ratio: moral benefits/physical risk. And also, the process of contigum may forward and backward. In clear: when it starts to go fine, we are too quick to pull out humanitarian NGO and not capable to replace them. The appreciation of recovery success in not this 6 month project worked fine let's go to development. It takes more time. And you can even duplicate the continum/contigum paradox/evaluation scale into economic centres and peripheries to have contigums of development and recovery. It is just a question of scale (country, state, county, village/town). And no need to go back too much in the past. One of the Rostow critics is that even people with a stone age technology do have internal sociological, culturaland technological evolution. What we observe now (2009) in some remote islands is not how humanity use to be at stone adge. |
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#158 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 825
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Let's see. Kill more? Less Good deeds? Are there other significant alternatives?
How about rock solid common sense (or is that "balls"?). Some of the KRG story is gradually trickling out in a manner that is beginning to rise above battlefield reporting to a more considered level---if not quite history. A Middle East Report article provides a broad description of some of the goings on on the KRG fault line last year, including the standoffs at Mosul Dam, Bashiqa and Khanaqin. Below is part of the Khanaqin section: “This is disputed area,” said Fuad Hussein, chief of staff to the KRG’s president, Masoud Barzani, remembering the events. “I am from Khanaqin. I have seen the Iraqi army killing Kurds as a child. I have seen the Iraqi army destroying everything. The Iraqi army, the old one, was an army against our people. And you send an army that speaks the same slogans?” According to Gen. Mun‘im Hashim Fahd, the commander of the army unit that ringed Khanaqin that day, he had no orders to uproot the peshmerga. His mission, rather, was to chase insurgents along the shores of Lake Hamrin to the west. There had been deadly bombings attributed to the insurgency in Diyala over the summer. “I had clear orders from the Ministry of Defense not to go into Khanaqin city,” said the bullet-headed general. “I asked, ‘Can I visit the mayor?’ They said, ‘No, it will only cause problems.’” Instead of talking, both sides hunkered down. Politicians in the KRG’s seat of Erbil sounded the alarm of “ethnic cleansing” and vowed open war to prevent it. The Kurds mobilized the rocket-launching trucks and tanks they had looted from Saddam’s army. Baghdad began to route its own heaviest artillery toward Khanaqin, and Iraq waited, a cannonball away from civil war on another front. Caught in the middle was Gen. Mark Hertling, then leader of the US forces in the north. As the governments in Baghdad and Erbil hurled threats at each other, the American issued a rather novel threat of his own: If the Kurds and the Iraqi army did not stand down, the US would do nothing. “If there were indicators that there would be a clash between pesh and Iraqi army, I would pull back all my advisers. I would tell all my other forces to return to their [bases]. I wasn’t going to take sides on this, and [they] would be responsible for any bloodshed,” Hertling said he told all concerned. Hertling credited cool-headed commanders on the ground for averting physical clashes. Eventually, a deal was struck allowing Kurdish police to remain in control of Khanaqin, with the peshmerga withdrawing north of the city, where they still sit, glowering southward, just like in the old days." http://www.merip.org/mero/mero100109.html When I served in 3ID in Germany in the 70's, there was an on-going tussle over whether the Rocky the Marne Bulldog statue's balls were or were not offensive---should they be displayed as anatomically correct, or stored away as an anachronism? Another guy in 64th Armor then was 2LT Mark Hertling. Based on the above story, he either carried Rocky's balls with him or, as MG Hertling, MND-N Commander, brought the Iron of 1AD to bear. Sometimes, it takes a lot of courage, as he did last year during the Khanaqin showdown to aggressively "do nothing" when it can avoid what otherwise would have been the beginning of Tom Rick's "Unraveling." Instead, as the report shows, a begrudging "way forward" is emerging that is neither based on killing nor good deeds. This from now-up-for-LTG Hertling, who was one of the big time "action figures," and decisive leaders in Northern Iraq during 2007/2008. Add serious diplomacy to the military toolkit. |
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