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Old 01-19-2010   #1
Rex Brynen
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Default The Scripture according to Trijicon

Well, this is always helpful while undertaking COIN operations in the Muslim world...

U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
Pentagon Supplier for Rifle Sights Says It Has 'Always' Added New Testament References

By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSS
Jan. 18, 2010

Quote:
Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army....


At the end of the serial number on Trijicon's ACOG gun sight, you can read "JN8:12", a reference to the New Testament book of John, Chapter 8, Verse 12, which reads: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." The ACOG is widely used by the U.S. military. (ABC News)

Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian."
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Old 01-19-2010   #2
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Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should.

I'd love to know the justification for this one. W.T.F.

But, there is more than enough stupidity to go around here.

First off, what the story refers to as "Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes" are just shorthand notation for Bible verses. I guess you could call it a code, though I don't think the process of "decoding" the message is all that tricky. Furthermore, these "secret codes" are not even subject to copyright, let alone secret classification.

Quote:
Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm[s] of Jesus Christ."
And I'm sure that remark was made in all seriousness. Certainly not in jest. No way.

Quote:
"This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy."
How can anybody that stupid have passed the bar exam in any state? The phrase "choke yourself" must have been coined specifically for him.

This seems like it could have been a simple matter of a phone call to the manufacturer stating, "knock this off, discontinue it, it is a substantive defect in the product given the missions that it will be used for," followed by a quiet order to troops to scrape this off any ACOGs. Nah. Let's not do that. Let's expose it, publish it, undercut our message... and then declare that the stupid Army is undercutting its message.

That's kind of like driving drunk and then mocking the police for failing to stop drunk drivers.
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Old 01-19-2010   #3
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Default Obviously it's a slow news day...

I foresee ACLU involvement.

I also can foresee the Troops being told to remove the offending 'codes' and several filing through the outer casing of their sights causing a subsequent blanket order to cease filing and directing Cdrs to turn all the sights in to DS Maintenance for removal of the offending characters IAW MWO 9-236-10 followed by a GAO audit to determine how much the whole drill cost.

Oh. And the media report of J Troop, 10-73d Cav taking excess casualties due to the lack of optical sights, all having been in Maintenance for over three months, in the big fire fight at Fetterman's Sangar...

All for something that doesn't approach, much less pass the 'so what' test.
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Old 01-19-2010   #4
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Hey, it coulda been worse. MT 19:14?

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Matthew 19:14 (New International Version)

14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...14&version=NIV
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Old 01-19-2010   #5
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Default Better and more ecumenical ...

would have been J15:8 & Q47:4:

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Judg 15:8 .... smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter...
and

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Qur'an 47:4 .... in fight, smite at their necks...
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Old 01-19-2010   #6
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And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. - Joel 2:30
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- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
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Old 01-19-2010   #7
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Default the book of armaments, 2:21

Quote:
...who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Ha...ade_of_Antioch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
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Old 01-19-2010   #8
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Originally Posted by Backwards Observer View Post
The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Perfectly, undoubtedly, for engagements with Killer Rabbits.
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Old 01-19-2010   #9
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Although, I would have thought if you really wanted to motivate the troops, Genesis 19:8 might be the most effective...
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Old 01-20-2010   #10
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Interesting observation at Ink Spots: Let there be light, so that I can kill you with it

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... the two inscriptions that are mentioned in the Post article refer to verses dealing with illumination, which is what a tritium night sight is meant to provide!
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Old 01-21-2010   #11
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So the bottom line here is that base DRMOs are soon going to have a lot of sights for cheap that can't be used by the military anymore?

Noted.
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Old 01-21-2010   #12
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Why don't scripture quoters ever use Matthew 6:5-7?

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"5. And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."
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Old 01-21-2010   #13
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Default D'oh!

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Pillar 6 Change continents for Christ. Train, equip and support indigenous military leaders as they build Christian ministries in their own nations.
http://www.militaryministry.org/about/

Quote:
Matthew 4:9 (New International Version)

9"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...:9&version=NIV
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Old 01-21-2010   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
So the bottom line here is that base DRMOs are soon going to have a lot of sights for cheap that can't be used by the military anymore?

Noted.
Excelent point. I will be watching.

SFC W
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Old 01-21-2010   #15
William F. Owen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
So the bottom line here is that base DRMOs are soon going to have a lot of sights for cheap that can't be used by the military anymore?

Noted.
While I agree with your sentiment, I would merely observe that what you see in this affair is merely a product of gross stupidity.

Supplying optic sights with Christian references on them to a Muslim Army = Good idea or less good idea, than if they merely had no religious reference at all.
Does the scripture quote support US policy better for being there?
Is US policy to advocate Christianity to Muslims. If yes, the scripture should stay. If no, then someone needs to be sacked - and the offending references be subject to a 30 seconds with a grinding wheel!
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Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
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Old 01-21-2010   #16
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I agree 100% that the whole thing is beyond stupid. But if I can get some optics for dirt cheap out of the deal, then I say, "allahu ackbar!"
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Old 01-21-2010   #17
Rex Brynen
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Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
If yes, the scripture should stay. If no, then someone needs to be sacked - and the offending references be subject to a 30 seconds with a grinding wheel!
Or the Army can simply make ACOG sights available with a wide range of religious symbols and quotations for soldiers who happen to be Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Zoastrian, etc. Frankly, I think a Wiccan sight complete with a pentagram would be way cool, allowing the Army to move beyond the confining limits of the "warrior" ethos to embrace the the witch/wizard/warlock/etc ethos too.

Also, perhaps Kiwigrunt can comment on the implications of such a policy in New Zealand, where 1.5% of the population reported their religious affiliation as "Jedi" in the 2001 census.

Use the Force, Luke!
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Old 01-21-2010   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
Frankly, I think a Wiccan sight complete with a pentagram would be way cool, allowing the Army to move beyond the confining limits of the "warrior" ethos to embrace the the witch/wizard/warlock/etc ethos too.
I can dig that! Next time I meet some wazak calling himself a "Warrior" I can say "Hi! I'm Warlock!" - or as an e-mail in the UK MOD apparently called me, "Somewhat less polite than Simon Cowell and twice as bitchy!"
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Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
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Old 01-21-2010   #19
kaur
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Wilf, could you find out what is Trijicon's message to British sharpshooters?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...129a1-lmt-308/
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Old 01-21-2010   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
... as an e-mail in the UK MOD apparently called me, "Somewhat less polite than Simon Cowell and twice as bitchy!"
Why pray tell would the apparatchiks of MOD say such a thing? My reason for asking is regimental loyalty--in 1915-1919 my step-grandfather served in a black-buttoned battalion, the Poplar and Stepney Rifles, better known as the 17th London. His cap badge was similar to that of Rifle Brigade, bears that name, and has the battle honour "South Africa, 1899-1902."
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