Vintages & What's the Point ?
OK, we now know that serviceman is a young 82 (roughly in the same vintage as Ken White), I'm a not so young 67 when I crawl out of bed in the morning, and Wilf is a handsome 46 (a mere babe, especially considering that our dads saw combat in the same theatre of war). And Schmedlap is a newly-born, even though he was probably 38 at 18.
Since age carries no particularly weight, we must look to the message and not the messenger. I can find all sorts of messages about Palestine-Israel before, during and after 1945-1948. E.g. (among many sites I've visited over the years), Palestine Remembered and The Jewish Agency for Israel. I've gone through both sites (the territorial nomenclature tells us their positions from the gitgo), with some "rigour" as Wilf might say. Compared to others here, my background in matters Palestinian and Israeli is minimal.
So, serviceman, what exactly are your points for discussion ? Take your time; please puntuate your sentences; and give us an organized presentation of your thesis.
Thanks in advance
Mike
PS: Schmedlap - your Moral Foundations Chart proves that you have a distinct adversion to causing harm (3.8 :). Marct and JMM were at the lower end of that scale (2.0 and 2.3); explained in our cases by too much genetic input from warriors who fought each other at the Battle of the Windmill. :D
are you israeli or do you just live there?
Hello
Are you Israeli or do you just live in Israel for professional or ideological reasons? I get the feeling that you weren't born in Israel or Jewish, but have adopted zionist theories and ideologies throughout your life? would this be correct?
Not that it makes much difference, it's just that you say that your current family ... ranges from Jewish terrorists to Brit Arabists...which is a tad out of the ordinary.
It is refreshing to hear your views from someone who was not born into them, as I believe.
rini e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William F. Owen
Serviceman,
I live in Israel. My current family spans those held in British prisons, as Jewish Terrorists, to those British Arabists who opposed the creation of the modern state of Israel - so please don't assume you have some superior knowledge of the issues. It ain't true and it doesn't help.
While I agree with some of your observations, you're being a bit too black and white. For example, Beit-Shean valley was pretty cleared "pre-emptively" as opposed to true "self-defence." - and you can run out breath arguing about Deir-Yassin, and a few other forgotten villages.
They have three versions of history here in Israel. "Ours, yours and theirs."
True. Then there's a case to made that history
is the main impediment to a resolution of the situation -- not that anything done here is likely to resolve much of anything... :wry:
Heh. You ARE an optimist...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gareth Davies
...Changing attitudes can be achieved on here and that can have a significant impact which will help resolution. (emphasis added / kw)
Good luck with that...:D
Well except for the fact...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
serviceman
this started after ww 1 when Lawence promised the land to Arabs
that TEL had absolutely no authority from London to "promise" anything to the specific group of "Arabs" to whom he was seconded, outside of arms and support as it pertained to Allenby's Palestine campaign.
While TEL certainly was instrumental in getting Fisal at least a small role in the Versailles talks, the Sykes-Picot agreement trumped much of his father Hussien wanted in regards to territorial gains. But that's realpolitik for you.
Also, IMO "Arab" is a very nebulous term to use when making a general argument about the ME since Arab unity is far far from unified.
Just sayin...