is the main impediment to a resolution of the situation -- not that anything done here is likely to resolve much of anything...
True. Then there's a case to made that history
is the main impediment to a resolution of the situation -- not that anything done here is likely to resolve much of anything...
Originally Posted by Ken White
is the main impediment to a resolution of the situation -- not that anything done here is likely to resolve much of anything...
I disagree. Changing attitudes can be achieved on here and that can have a significant impact which will help resolution.
Sorry, but I know from bitter experience that explaining the history to folk should help, but it rarely if ever does. As I have said before the arguments in the Middle East are usually arguments over the story history tells. Even the archeological record here is deeply political.
There are 3 histories.
- Yours
- Ours
- Theirs
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
Heh. You ARE an optimist...
Good luck with that...
fully agree with Ken. White on this
( Changing attitudes can be achieved here ) a bit of give and take could be in order
Yes, give and take is exactly what is needed. The Israelis should give the West Bank back to the Palestinians and take themselves back to the west of the 1967 border.
There's a very good book detailing American involvement in the Arab-Israeli conflict called Peace Process by William B. Quandt. I'm in the process of finishing it for a class that I'm currently taking. I have three chapters or so to go.
I would have to say that the closest this conflict has been to ending would have been during the 90s and the Oslo Accords. I wouldn't expect the conflict to end until those conditions occur again.
WHY?
From where I sit- the history looks like this.
Israel is established, as promised by the west, belatedly, in response to the Holocaust.
The Arab states tell the Palestinians to leave (so they aren't in the way of the second Holocaust) and attack Israel. Despite their primary malefactors being thei Arab gov'ts, the Palestinians leave, hoping to take advantage of the development the Jews have accomplished once they are all dead.
Oops, the Arabs fail miserably and Israel survives.
The Arabs attack several (3, 4) more times, with generally the same results. Israel expands.
Israel gives back some land, in hope of peace- good luck with that. Arabs don't want peace, they want to kill Jews.
Look at all the conflicts in the world today- the vast majority are between Islam and someone else. It pains me to say it, but we are going to either:
1- wipe out Islam
2- force a drastic change in Islam (it may become a peaceful religion, but it is NOT a religion of peace at this time)
3- fight forever with half measures.
4- surrender and accept dhimmi-tude.
I'm not comfortable with any of these choices, but I don't see another one.
You need to move where you are sitting. Perhaps a trip to the West Bank would make you realise the real situation.
Last edited by Tom Odom; 12-07-2009 at 10:52 AM. Reason: removed ad hominem jab
Well,
As AmericanPride aptly said, "Islam is not a unitary actor". Correspondingly, there are plenty of pissed off individuals of other religions, ie. Christians, in the populations of Arabs and Palestinians. Seems to me like the problem is more political from the Arab/Palestinian side because any semblance of real unity within the masses could not and would not stem from a single religion, since there are many.
It stems from, as the title of the thread suggests, the displacement of self, family, friends, and brethren... all of which are interconnected with land.
To me, it sounds like something that a lot of people, including Jewish-Israelis, could easily relate to. It certainly is the story of the Jewish people that I was always told.
In terms of a peace-force, maybe we should just have a privatized force on the ground on the borders. You could by-pass the U.N. if both the Palestinians and the Israelis agree to such a force. There would be a lot of money to be made and customer satisfaction would be a high priority....
In terms of reconciling who butchered who, perhaps this is where our religions should and can play a larger role in helping people forgive and move on.
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