Messages of Bin Laden Published
Moderator at work
I have merged six thread here, to create a Bin Laden thread or collection that covers him before the Abbottabad raid and his demise. In a moment a post-Abbottabad thread will be created. The thread was renamed too (ends).
20 Nov. London Daily Telegraph - Messages of Bin Laden Published.
Quote:
Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama bin Laden is billed as the first accurate compendium of the terrorist leader's words, threats and ruminations from 1994 to 2004.
Its editors have rooted out many statements they identified as forgeries and retranslated to correct "horrendous" errors.
Bin Laden's terms for America's surrender appeared after the September 2001 suicide attacks and include demands that amount to the abandonment of much of Western life.
Groups: Bin Laden plans video on 9/11
Groups: Bin Laden plans video on 9/11
by Lee Keath, Associated Press
Quote:
Osama bin Laden will release a new video in the coming days ahead of the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks in what would be the first new images of the terror mastermind in nearly three years, al-Qaida's media arm announced Thursday.
Analysts noted that al-Qaida tends to mark the Sept. 11 anniversary with a slew of messages, and the Department of Homeland Security said it had no credible information warning of an imminent threat to the United States.
Still, bin Laden's appearance would be significant. The al-Qaida leader has not appeared in new video footage since October 2004, and he has not put out a new audiotape in more than a year, his longest period without a message.
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/...in_laden_video
What will this accomplish ?
Naively assuming OBL is still kickin’ (we haven’t seen him for 3 years) and using Slapout’s criminal behavior schematic, this simply doesn’t jive.
Would he risk all, nearly three years later to make a video with yet another recently dyed beard ?
Perhaps he needs to motivate his support elements, as the war is not going well for them. His appearance will no doubt grant the POTUS unequivocal congressional support well into next year.
The American public will be outraged and the stakes and bounty on his head will only grow.
I may need a witch doctor or at least an anthropologist to explain this one :confused:
Whatever happened to "wanted, dead or alive"?
Frankly, I don't know where this willingness to assert that Bin Laden is dead and his latest manifesto is a fake comes from.
If I was king (perish the thought), I'd assume he was alive and up to something until he was in custody/killed/captured.
And like your average man on the street, I cringe when I hear talk about how capturing him doesn't matter. It sounds too much like a rationalization for not "bringing him to justice, or justice to him".
"Get Yamamoto" is what I'm reminded of.
Oh, I understand the point that it is more than Bin Laden, the man, that is the problem. I can grasp this logic. It is the ideology he articulates that is the problem. Specifically, it is the Wahhabism branch of Sunni Islam that is arguably the ultimate source. This Wahhabism which is spreading to Muslim lands draws financial support, ideology and even recruits from its entrenched heartland in ....Mesopotamia, of course. Well, actually no, it comes out of Saudi Arabia.
Call me crazy or a dreamer, but the man is responsible for the deaths of around 3,000 American citizens and billions of dollars of damage. To me, at least, he matters a little bit more than the deputy commander of Al Qaeda in Ramadi or Baquba.
FDR requested Sec. of the Navy Knox "to get Yamamoto." The U.S. navy seemed to take the attack on Pearl Harbor personal, and killed the author of it. Anyone interested in how we dealt with this man can read all about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Yamamoto#Death
You miss the point, Tacitus - and I guess I missed yours
The clothing bit was directed at the fact that they've used the same pictures of him in at least two of the last three videos (haven't seen this one yet).
Can't speak for anyone else but I'm not offended -- why would I be. He's more than a cog in a wheel but he is not irreplaceable, no one is. He does have symbolic value and we don't need a martyr. The more important point is that AQ is not a heirarchial organization, it's amorphous -- the old starfish; cut a ray off and it just generates another to replace it. His death or departure wouldn't make much difference to the organization other than symbolically.
Still there is that symbology. His continued breathing is really in both our interests. Even if it isn't satisfying.
Presidents say a lot of dumb things; if they didn't, we wouldn't be able to say "What the President really meant was..." :)
And I'm glad to hear the Tri-Cities area hasn't changed that much; Good for them. Bring justice to him is one thing; bringing him to justice would likely pose more problems than it would solve. Now, if he isn't dead and we can just find him. He's as hard to locate as Eric Rudolph was...
Old Bill Rails At Authors, Even Rummy
He looks like a doctored sock puppet, his mystique fading like that of Che, yet never fully gone, slowly succumbing to a superior system of economics, justice, moral values, technology and military might. And yes, even better football. I swear to God, this video prop is my neighbor, Old Bill. I''m driving by his place later to see if there are any lights on. What's the wager on how long the prop's words lingered in the few, average, working Americans that tuned in? He should have maybe cursed Mexican truck drivers or gay rights activists or abortion clinics or the slump in the housing market or the Minn. Vikings and gleaned a couple more seconds of collective American attention.
Okay, you and I agree and the guy I responded
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sarajevo071
Killing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi didn't bring end to the Iraqi Resistance like many in U.S. military and political circles was predicting.
That was my whole point.
to in the excerpt you quoted seems to differ with us...
As for anyone in US military circles predicting anything significant occurring as a result of Zarqawi's death, I missed that. Politicians did do what you say but then, they're politicians. IMO, no one with any sense at all pays much attention to them.
You didn't write that, nor did I say you did.
I just agreed with Sarajevo that zapping Bin Laden might be satisfying in a sense but that it would accomplish little or nothing.
Agree that most, if not 99% probably do agree with you but would also suggest that any such spike in positive effects on the home front would be fleeting. Also and IMO that benefit would be outweighed by the disadvantages in the martyr effect. Those folks consistently beat us to a pulp in the information arena...
I agree that Bin Laden is wanted by many for what he did and not for what getting him may result in and that you certainly are not alone in thinking that. I suspect that the potential result is the principal reason for not making him an issue and that is seen by many as adequate reason to not worry about him. The interest in all the other AQ folks is simply due to the fact that it is, as I said, an amorphous collection of people any one of whom is capable of setting up an operation and obtaining the funding through the others to pull that operation off. Not to mention that Hezbollah is a far more dangerous entity. AQ is just one of many and it isn't nearly as effective as its very successful propaganda has many believing.
Nah, 9/11 was the reason we went to Afghanistan. Islamist International Terrorism and attempting to modify the attitudes in its birthplace were the reason for Iraq and the greater Long War, GWOT or whatever we're calling it this week. The 9/11 attack just provided a rationale and a window to counter 27 years of Islamist probing attacks and western cheek-turning (by four successive US Presidents from both parties among others) by saying we weren't going to take it anymore.
Bin Laden said to be on death bed
I doubt, if true, that his death will fundamentally progress the War on Terrorism. But it would be a small victory. I couldn't find further information anywhere else.
http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/4672
60 Minutes: Kill bin Laden
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4502669n
Quote:
The officer who led the army's Delta Force mission to kill Osama bin Laden after 9/11 reveals what really happened in Tora Bora, Afghanistan, when the al-Qaeda leader narrowly escaped. Scott Pelley reports.
Is this guy for real?
Rest of Story - 4 page article
Here is the 4-page article (+ 27 pages of comments) underlying the spot.
Quote:
Elite Officer Recalls Bin Laden Hunt
Delta Force Commander Says The Best Plan To Kill The Al Qaeda Leader In 2001 Was Nixed
Oct. 5, 2008
....
In 2001, just 10 weeks after 9/11, he was a 37-year-old Army major leading a team of America's most elite commandos. Even now, 60 Minutes can't tell you his name or show you his face. 60 Minutes hired a theatrical make up artist to take this former Delta officer through a series of transformations to disguise him. He calls himself "Dalton Fury," and is the author of "Kill Bin Laden," a new book out this week.
.....
Fury says he'll donate his profits from the book to the Special Operations Warrior Foundation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4494937.shtml
I have no way to determine whether this article is factual in whole, part or not at all. Others here may be better informed.
Ishmael Jones, The Human Factor, pp.238-239, blames the escape on CIA "HQs managers" taking over the operation after UBL's radio transmission was received.
Legally, Ishmael Jones Redux ?
Here is the only "statement of facts" that I have:
Quote:
(posted at PS by Team Sergeant - from 2 Feb 2008 Army Times at 2nd url below)
Fury said that, as required by the agreement he signed when he left the unit and retired, he sent Delta a copy of his manuscript for security review.
“They came up with a list of redactions of items they thought ought to be taken out,” he said. “I told them I would honor every one of those. However, they were never ever given to me.”
Delta’s higher headquarters apparently intervened, according to Fury. “It’s not Delta’s fault,” he said. “It’s their higher command – JSOC and SOCOM have the say. And they … collectively decided not to provide me with any detailed redactions after a year of trying through my attorney.”
“All I got back was responses [reminding me of] my commitment to the classified information agreement that I signed … [and] basically threatening to possibly take me to court over this.”
Fury said that after SOCOM “stifled it,” he sent the manuscript to the Defense Department’s Office of Security Review.
“OSR failed to respond in any timely manner at all, after numerous requests from my attorney.
“The comment that SOCOM made was that the sensitive information was so thoroughly woven into the manuscript that any attempt at detailed redaction would be literally impossible. They chose not to do it.”
“We did receive a manuscript from [the author] for security review,” said SOCOM spokesman Army Col. Hans Bush. “The manuscript did not pass security review because it was found to contain classified information. We notified [the author] through his lawyer last fall. To date this remains unresolved. “We are still willing to work with the author in the even he resubmits a manuscript that does not contain classified information.”
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ghlight=dalton
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/0..._book_080131w/
The Ishmael Jones book, and the CIA PRB's refusal to clear it, has been discussed here.
http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=5832
The agency's PRB review process is well regulated and subject to judicial review - sometimes in favor of authors, sometimes not (as in Frank Snepp's case).
The Fury process has multiple commands involved; and, I have no idea (no legal research done or intended) of whether judicial review is available or not. Since the Army has regulations for most everything, I presume there is some legal guidance somewhere - but I arz a dummy in this legal area.
The Jones and Fury books were both rejected for the same reason stated - " sensitive information was so thoroughly woven into the manuscript that any attempt at detailed redaction would be literally impossible." Both books were then published despite the rejection.
So far, no legal action has been taken in either case. Note: I am not calling for legal action in either case - just sitting on the sidelines watching.