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    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    I think I have to agree witjh Bill Moore's post, especially in regards to the issue of complexity. The bottom line, as Bill Moore pointed out, is that this isn't easy and it isn't a one size fits all solution. An appeal to CvC as "THE" answer is just another effort to find that silver bullet that does not exist.

    JMM cited a couple of 20th Century examples of "mixed bag" efforts. Despite being enjoined by Zenpundit to eschew the historical method, I'd like to suggest that we look at the American Revolution for another example of those complexities. That struggle was actually several struggles between a number of entities with a number of different goals. In some cases the colonists were the good guys; in others, the bad guys. The French and Spanish, as well Native Americans from nations that included the Oneida and Tuscaroroa tribes of the Iroquois Federation and the Catawbas of the Carolinas, may be viewed as an intervening force supporting the insurrection. Forces deployed by George III from various German principalities like Hesse-Kassel, Anhalt-Zerbst, Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel, and Ansbach-Bayreuth, not to mention members of the remaining tribes of the Iroquois Confederacy and the Cherokees in the South, may be considered COIN assistance to the forces of England trying to quell the insurrection. The loyalties of colonists themselves were fairly divided. Check out the events in what is now Westchester County, NY or the backwoods of South Carolina for some horrendous tales of inhumane treatment by civilian adherents to both sides of the conflict.
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
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    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
    I think I have to agree witjh Bill Moore's post, especially in regards to the issue of complexity. The bottom line, as Bill Moore pointed out, is that this isn't easy and it isn't a one size fits all solution. An appeal to CvC as "THE" answer is just another effort to find that silver bullet that does not exist.
    WM,

    Aren't violent family disputes equally complex? This is an important assumption for me. It drives my hypothesis that I hope to turn into a dissertation one day that the entire social contract can be found at the family level.

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeF; 12-18-2009 at 03:50 PM.

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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    Aren't violent family disputes equally complex? This is an important assumption for me. It drives my hypothesis that I hope to turn into a dissertation one day that the entire social contract can be found at the family level.

    Mike
    Yes, they are and CvC talks about emotion,chance and reason.That's a classic case of a Bar fight that the Police respond to or a Domestic dispute or basically any crime. All three elements are there from the micro level (people) to macro level (organization,country,etc).

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    Council Member IntelTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    WM,

    Aren't violent family disputes equally complex? This is an important assumption for me. It drives my hypothesis that I hope to turn into a dissertation one day that the entire social contract can be found at the family level.

    Mike
    The early Canaanites/Israelites certainly thought so...
    "The status quo is not sustainable. All of DoD needs to be placed in a large bag and thoroughly shaken. Bureaucracy and micromanagement kill."
    -- Ken White


    "With a plan this complex, nothing can go wrong." -- Schmedlap

    "We are unlikely to usefully replicate the insights those unencumbered by a military staff college education might actually have." -- William F. Owen

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    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
    WM,

    Aren't violent family disputes equally complex? This is an important assumption for me. It drives my hypothesis that I hope to turn into a dissertation one day that the entire social contract can be found at the family level.

    Mike
    I think Aristotle and Plato, original writers on political theory would agree with you. To perhaps oversimplify too much, economics in their parlance was really about how one 's family got along and politics was largely just an expansion of economics in their view.
    Last edited by wm; 12-18-2009 at 07:30 PM.
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
    The greatest educational dogma is also its greatest fallacy: the belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught. — Sydney J. Harris

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    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
    I think Aristotle and Plato, original writers on political theory would agree with you. To perhaps oversimplify too much, economics in their parlance was really about how one 's family got along and politics was largely just an expansion of economics in their view.
    What do those guys know? They thought the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Thanks for the reply. I'll have to brush up on my classics reading.

    On a serious note, I'm really enjoying the point/counter-point by PhilR and Bob's World. Please keep it up. It's very insightful.

    Mike

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