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Thread: Military Totemism and its Impact on Small Wars

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  1. #1
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    Default Oh man!

    120mm,

    You're going to get the A/S crowd over at LF so mad at you...Let me know what reinforcing fires I could provide, as I love the idea!

  2. #2
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcustis View Post
    120mm,

    You're going to get the A/S crowd over at LF so mad at you...Let me know what reinforcing fires I could provide, as I love the idea!
    Remember, jcustis, Sacred Cows make the Best Burgers. I just about got fed my own guts over comments regarding the Airborne merit badge mafia.

    And, as you surmised, Lightfighter is the inspiration for this "possible paper."

    The thing that blows my mind, is how many real SF guys will actually discard a bit of kit, because they have seen pictures of teenagers dressing up in it for fun.

    Marc - The point about historic uniformity you brought up is one of the things that makes me less than comfortable. My academics are not as strong as I'd like just yet; my idea is to float just enough of a summary to get me accepted, and then dig like hell to back it up with actual "knowledge" and "analysis".

    And I was focusing primarily on "combat fashion", so it is an excellent point you bring up about "dress" versus "combat". I mean, when did lapels quit being a way to regulate for temperature and start being a style?

    The problem I'm having now, is deciding whether to write an omnibus paper very shallowly, or drilling deep on one aspect.

  3. #3
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default accessorizing

    120mm
    You might consider how when a "trend" gets pushed down form an elite, it is sometimes accepted as being useful by the greater community at large, even at the extent of sacrificing mobilty, or comfort. I know we got issued a bunch of stuff in our RFI that is now collecting dust. I've found that simple is better, especially when your pushing 40 and occassionally have to replicate what you did in your 20s. It'd also be useful to know how much both the soldier and the insitution spends on "accessorizing"

  4. #4
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default From accessory to necessity

    Hi Rob,

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    You might consider how when a "trend" getspushed down form an elite, it is sometimes accepted as being useful by the greater community at large, even at the extent of sacrificing mobilty, or comfort. I know we got issued a bunch of stuff in our RFI that is now collecting dust. I've found that simple is better, especially when your pushing 40 and occassionally have to replicate what you did in your 20s. It'd also be useful to know how much both the soldier and the insitution spends on "accessorizing"
    Really good points! There was some pretty good work done on this in a consumer / civilian context back in the 1960's in Sociology if I remember correctly. So, a new question that 120mm could pose at the end of his paper is "When does an accessory become a necessity?"

    Richard Dawkins had an article in the late 1980's or 1990's (it's early in the morning and my mind isn't awake yet) where he talks about people taking on additional burdens to show how strong they are - the "peacock effect". I think that this may be playing out in some of he equipment issues that you are mentioning.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi 120mm,

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    Marc - The point about historic uniformity you brought up is one of the things that makes me less than comfortable. My academics are not as strong as I'd like just yet; my idea is to float just enough of a summary to get me accepted, and then dig like hell to back it up with actual "knowledge" and "analysis".
    That's a tactic that many of us use, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's also why many of us will send out preliminary drafts of our papers to friends and colleagues - so that they can point out the holes in the arguments . I've found that, most of the time, I get some really great feedback from my own network (including some of my undergrad students).

    I realy think that your summary is good - I'd go for it

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    And I was focusing primarily on "combat fashion", so it is an excellent point you bring up about "dress" versus "combat". I mean, when did lapels quit being a way to regulate for temperature and start being a style?

    The problem I'm having now, is deciding whether to write an omnibus paper very shallowly, or drilling deep on one aspect.
    Personally, if I were you, I would drill down to about middlin' level but place that is it's broader context.

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    The thing that blows my mind, is how many real SF guys will actually discard a bit of kit, because they have seen pictures of teenagers dressing up in it for fun.
    Okay, being an Anthropologist, I'd wonder if you asked them why they did it? This type of observation is "data", and their responses are another type of data. If you write about "what is" rather than about "theory says..." you will, to my mind, end up doing a much better conference paper. Any theory necessary can be alluded to in the presentation and written in later in the publication.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member Uboat509's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post

    The thing that blows my mind, is how many real SF guys will actually discard a bit of kit, because they have seen pictures of teenagers dressing up in it for fun.
    I have not seen this. I have seen a lot of guys get rid of kit that was issued to them because whoever procured it, did so without actually talking to an operator. There is a certain amount of institutional arrogance in SF but I have never seen anyone discard good kit over something like that.

    SFC W

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    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default 120mm- Bubba wants to know?

    1-120mm, you might also consider the fact that military fashion has an impact on the civilian world, with stores like "Banana Republic" and "The Urban Gorilla" that take military fashion and alter it slightly to sell to the general public.

    2-When you say combat fashion does that include web gear? How web gear has changed both for the good and the bad is a hobby of mine. I have a lot of material on it if you ever think you need it.

    3-I don't have any college degrees but I have been called a 3rd degree Red neck. And Slapout,Alabama is the cultural center of the Universe, according to Bubba anyway.

  8. #8
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default



    Saw this along with some other "Bob" humor.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default Too much unauthorized fun on this thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post

    Saw this along with some other "Bob" humor.
    Thanks for the belly laugh

  10. #10
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    Default

    This continues to be a great topic - unfortunately, I am seriously wavering on whether to go through with the paper, or not.

    I am in arrears in my ILE course, and need to focus on it. I also need to do some fundamental "Catch up for the 10 years I failed to study" and "decide what the hell I'm going to do with my life" stuff.

    I have enough to float a proposal. I'll decide for sure later this week if I'm going to do it or not.

    Thanks for all the help and ideas. This may just need to be put off until next year.

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