HUMINT, Informants and more (merged thread)

[carl]

Police make extensive use of paid informants and coercion is routinely used successfully in both law enforcement and military circles. SFC W

This comment worries me a little. Please define coercion as it you believe it would apply in American police practice.

[Valin]

This comment worries me a little. Please define coercion as it you believe it would apply in American police practice.

While I don't wish to speak for others...
Example
Give up your connection/boss...etc. or you're going to jail...for a very very long time, give him up and we'll see what we can do. Happens all the time, all the way from low level street thugs to (say) Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

[carl]

An example I was thinking of might take the form of, "If you don't tell me who shot the victim I will charge you as an accessory." That is not the physical type of coercion that I suspect that original poster had in mind but I believe that the principle is the same. You are attempting to gain information from a source by threat of an unpleasant consequence.

It would be nice if more people just did the right thing and freely provided information. It would be nicer still if life were like CSI and the suspect would just admit to everything once they were confronted with the evidence. Unfortunately, life is not like that, at least not in Iraq. We have to find other ways to get people provide information, whether that takes the form of paid informants or threats of greater charges or longer prison sentences, or whatever other means that they have within legal bounds.

SFC W

Ah so. Good. The old "I really want to help you but you have to give me a reason." argument; let the negotiations begin. I would just add that the principle may be similar to physical coercion, but morally the two courses are in different worlds.

I don't know of anyplace where life is like CSI.

[Michael C]

(Taken from another thread and reduced to developing sources point)

The hardest part is determining whom to kill. The answer is intelligence. Intelligence can be coerced, paid for or freely given. The question is, what is the most accurate? Coercion is rarely accurate and paid for intelligence is frequently misleading. Therefore, the best intelligence is that freely given. And, the best way to get that intelligence is to convince locals you care about the best outcome. The way to do that is to try and wins hearts and minds.

Michael C. at www.onviolence.com

[Alsultani]

(Taken from another thread and reduced to developing sources point)

The hardest part is determining whom to kill. The answer is intelligence. Intelligence can be coerced, paid for or freely given. The question is, what is the most accurate? Coercion is rarely accurate and paid for intelligence is frequently misleading. Therefore, the best intelligence is that freely given. And, the best way to get that intelligence is to convince locals you care about the best outcome. The way to do that is to try and wins hearts and minds.

Michael C. at www.onviolence.com

Sir,

Are you specifically addressing LE source operations? I've written a few posts above on what I consider the appropriate application of coercion and paying intelligence sources in counterinsurgency, but locals in the countries in which we are currently "doing" counterinsurgency do not consider the best outcome altruistically. The best outcome is what is the best for them, usually at the expense of someone else. It's also a trick to win the hearts and minds while maintaining their respect and without seeming naive, i.e. weak. I can give numerous examples of coalition forces trying to win the hearts and minds through reconstruction projects and good neighbor policy that got in the way of intelligence collection and our units mission, and that in part financed the local insurgency, that were done by well intentioned but not "tuned in" civil affairs and chaplains. But they got to say at the end that they were able to spend 20 million dollars in an AO, so somebody was happy (Damn those Powerpoint presentations again - they are hindering the war on terror). (Another thread, I know)

Winning the hearts and minds of your neighbors is a concept that does not appear anywhere in their internal sociology, to my knowledge. Societies in which we are doing counterinsurgency have not traditionally organized themselves in ways that best outcomes are arrived at truly consensually and for the "common" good, outside one's kinship or tribal/clan entity. By now, after years of exposure to us, they know to smile and nod their heads when we talk like this while thinking what idiots we are and how they or their cousin can personally profit from it. I would be interested in any counterexamples you might have.

Is it any different in the microcosm of square block LE intelligence ops dealing with chronic criminal organizations?

I'd ask for your continued patience with my posts. Lots of fodder for thought, lots of tough memories of lessons hard learned, and blood of friends shed.

[William F. Owen]

The hardest part is determining whom to kill. The answer is intelligence. Intelligence can be coerced, paid for or freely given.

Well source motivation can and does often alter radically, and what he/she says and does may actually conflict with the facts.

The question is, what is the most accurate? Coercion is rarely accurate and paid for intelligence is frequently misleading. Therefore, the best intelligence is that freely given.

Operational experience from Malaya, Aden, Kenya, Colombia, Sri-Lanka, Cyprus, and Northern Ireland would not support those statements. Money and sex are huge motivators. Physical and psychological coercion can and work.

And, the best way to get that intelligence is to convince locals you care about the best outcome. The way to do that is to try and wins hearts and minds.

....and between that ideal and the real world is a whole mess of compromises.

[Tom Odom]

Operational experience from Malaya, Aden, Kenya, Colombia, Sri-Lanka, Cyprus, and Northern Ireland would not support those statements. Money and sex are huge motivators. Physical and psychological coercion can and work.

Chickens were quite effective--even skinny thrice frozen freezer burned EU donor chickens bought on the black market--especially when combined with a bag of rice...

Tom

[William F. Owen]

Chickens were quite effective--even skinny thrice frozen freezer burned EU donor chickens bought on the black market--especially when combined with a bag of rice...

Add to that coloured pens sets and novelty key chains, for your more discerning members of the SLA!!

[rborum]

AKO Log-In and BCKS MI Net registration required

The Fundamentals of Islamic Extremism: Psychological Considerations for Developing and Managing Counterterrorism Sources

Ted: Our paper is obviously a bit dated now. One of the challenges writing about this stuff is that it's a moving target. By the time you get something written, security reviewed and disseminated, the landscape or actors have already changed/evolved or adapted. We have had some preliminary discussion about the need to update some of this stuff, and whether such an effort would even be useful. If you're interested, I'm happy to let you know if it goes anywhere. Thanks - Randy

[Alsultani]

Ted: Our paper is obviously a bit dated now. One of the challenges writing about this stuff is that it's a moving target. By the time you get something written, security reviewed and disseminated, the landscape or actors have already changed/evolved or adapted. We have had some preliminary discussion about the need to update some of this stuff, and whether such an effort would even be useful. If you're interested, I'm happy to let you know if it goes anywhere. Thanks - Randy

I for one will definitely be reading this paper. This is a very much neglected part of the curriculum. It's also an area of weakness in army HUMINT recruitment - vis a vis people having any interest in or capability to understand these issues is not any sort of prerequisite. But that's another thread.

Have you guys read _The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs by David Pryce-Jones? His chapters on shame/honor and power challenging are worth the price of the book. Helped me out tremendously over "there."

[davidbfpo]

Infiltration of an enemy is a well known tactic, it does have unintended consequences sometimes. The story of the Dane Morten Storm has been around awhile and in May 2013 Mark Stout, now JHU and then @ The International Spy Museum, conducted a recommended Q&A:http://www.spymuseum.org/multimedia/...ists-in-yemen/

Clints Watts provided a summary a week ago:http://selectedwisdom.com/?p=1185

No mention was made of a possible unintended result, which today was given a lurid headline in the Daily Mail, citing a CNN interview:

Was Kenya mall massacre 'mastermind' backed by CIA cash? Disturbing claims by 'double agent who worked with terror suspect for years'

Link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2nME8w2l5

[davidbfpo]

A Sunday NYT review of Morten Storm's book '‘Agent Storm: My Life Inside Al Qaeda and the CIA' by Scott Shane which ends with:

In the end, his loyalty to the intelligence agencies proved no more lasting than his allegiance to Al Qaeda. Nearly as fed up with the spies as with the jihadists, Storm decided to go public and says he turned down an offer of $400,000 to keep his mouth shut. The result is a valuable window on both sides in a lethal underground war.

Link:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/bo...ten-storm.html

Jason Burke, of The Observer, hada review in July 2014:http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...n-storm-review

See for more reviews:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Agent-Storm-.../dp/0241003776 and http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...n%2Cstripbooks

[davidbfpo]

A new review of the book, it first appeared a month ago in The Washingon Times and now in the online journal Perspectives on Terrorism:http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/.../view/380/html

It ends with:

The drama of "Agent Storm" will no doubt attract Hollywood's attention (it's already an hour-long CNN documentary), but bright lights aside, the book is an indispensable guide to how the West can counter the appeal of violent jihadism and its al Qaeda terrorist groupings. Today, when so many young Western Muslims are flocking to Syria and Iraq to join the ranks of genocidal insurgents such as the al Nusra Front and ISIS/Islamic State, this book's insights could not be more important.

[davidbfpo]

A review on WoTR, which ends with:

Today, when so many young Western Muslims are flocking to Syria and Iraq to join the ranks of genocidal insurgents such as the al Nusra Front and the Islamic State, this book’s insights could not be more important.

Link:http://warontherocks.com/2014/11/joi...ow-to-guide/#_

[davidbfpo]

With official approval a Muslim community informer for the British Security Service (MI5) was interviewed by BBC Radio Four Today programme. You can listen to the short six minute podcast:https://audioboo.fm/boos/1819839-the...unity-informer

The initial approach to him was made by the police, so the person may not be an MI5 informant, but one run in concert by the police and MI5. He repeatedly refers to the role as providing clarification on a person, whether they are linked to extremism.

[Bill Moore]

This was a good and short interview, but I don' t think most would find this surprising in the least. Police should be doing source work like this, it is expected, and the only sources that will have valuable information will have to be part of the community for the threats emanates from.

I think much of the same happens in the U.S. for the same reason, most Muslims don't want extremists putting them at risk directly and indirectly (anti-Muslim backlash after attacks), and they disagree in principle with the extremist methods and desired ends.

What would be refreshing to see is an overt movement of Muslims actively opposing the extremists, shaming them, making it undesirable for their children to be attracted to their narrative. Until that happens the significant threat of Islamic extremist based terror will persistent.

[davidbfpo]

A curious public information film aimed at US students planning to visit and study in China, in part for the methods, but also the timing of the release now - as teh subject was arrested in June 2010:

The "Game of Pawns: The Glenn Duffie Shriver Story" video dramatizes the incremental steps taken by intelligence officers to recruit Shriver and convince him to apply for jobs with the U.S. State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency.

Link to YouTube film (28 mins):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8xlUNK4JHQ

Or the official FBI link:http://www.fbi.gov/news/news_blog/st...ligence-threat

Or Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Duffie_Shriver

[davidbfpo]

Just started to watch this 48 minutes long documentary, the focus is on FBI informants:

Al Jazeera's Investigative Unit takes you inside the shadowy world of FBI informants and counterterrorism sting operations. Following the 9/11 attacks, the FBI set about to recruit a network of more than 15,000 informants. Al Jazeera's investigative film tells the stories of three paid FBI informants who posed as Muslims as they searched for people interested in joining violent plots concocted by the FBI.

Link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMRns...ature=youtu.be and the summary:http://webapps.aljazeera.net/aje/cus...nts/index.html

Three informants are shown, alongside FBI photos and audio - presumably from court trials, such as the 'Liberty City Seven'.

Not sure what to say so far.

[davidbfpo]

A fascinating book that crams in so much, even if it has an overwhelmingly Anglo-US focus - the Soviet era KGB and East German HVA get a mention. The historical setting is good, using Russia in 1917 as one and Northern Ireland for another. Oddly very little from Israel.

Then the 'new world' intrudes with the demise of the 'Cold War' and the 'new jihadist terrorist' threat taking centre stage.

A few puzzling references appear to non-warfare threats, notably multinationals moving billions and whether in the future there is a national political requirement to spy on them. What would have been the impact of a spy in some of our banks prior to the 2008 "crash" ?

The interplay between HUMINT and TECHINT (in all its varieties) is covered well.

I have made a lot of notes to think further about and some online, anonymous research in 2016.

Yes the author is a journalist and his Amazon bio states:

Stephen Grey is a British writer, broadcaster, and investigative reporter with more than two decades of experience reporting on intelligence issues. He is best known for his world exclusive revelations about the CIA's program of "extraordinary rendition," as well as reports from Iraq and Afghanistan. A former foreign correspondent and investigations editor with The Sunday Times, he has reported for The New York Times, The Guardian, BBC, and Channel 4, and is currently a special correspondent with Reuters. Grey is the author of Ghost Plane.

"Insiders" on both sides of the Atlantic have expressed their admiration for the book, including details they thought were not in the public domain.

Amazon (US):http://www.amazon.com/New-Spymasters...y+stephen+grey

Amazon (UK):http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Spymaste...s+stephen+grey

[davidbfpo]

I rarely spot the FBI's open bulletin, but today via Twitter I caught this article and it is even more topical as the author is a Belgian Federal Police officer. The full title is 'Using Human Sources in Counterterrorism Operations: Understanding the Motivations and Political Impact':https://leb.fbi.gov/2016/april/using...litical-impact