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Thread: The Russian Military: Declining or Better?

  1. #41
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    Default Russia to revive army bases in three oceans

    Russia to revive army bases in three oceans

    The Russian government intends to restore the military-technical support of their ships at the former military base in Cam Ranh (Vietnam), Lourdes (Cuba) and the Seychelles. So far, this is not about plans for a military presence, but rather the restoration of the crew resources. However, a solid contractual basis should be developed for these plans.

    The intentions were announced on July 27 by the Russian Navy Commander Vice Admiral Viktor Chirkov. "At the international level, the creation of logistics points in Cuba, the Seychelles and Vietnam is being worked out,"
    http://english.pravda.ru/russia/poli...a_army_base-0/
    A rather intriguing report from the Pravda.

    Anyone has an idea what's up?

    There is a mention of an OAK missile being deployed in Cuba.

    Any idea what it is?

  2. #42
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    The Russians have discussed these "bases" before. This is really about rights to harbor, resupply and provide crew rest for Russian ships and so the Russians aren't really opening military "bases." This will allow Russian ships to deploy for longer periods and operate farther from their home ports.

    As far as the missile goes, I have no idea. My Russian is very rusty, but the translation seems correct based on the Russian version of the article.

    The newest Russian nuclear ballistic missile system is the Topol which means "Poplar" in Russian. Maybe Pravda got their trees mixed up. But even that doesn't make any sense - the Topol is an ICBM so there's no point in putting them in Cuba. And then there are the massive geopolitical ramifications of such a deployment.

    No one else seems to have reported this missile deployment either. So, all in all, I think it's very likely that this is another case of Pravda not living up to its name....
    Supporting "time-limited, scope limited military actions" for 20 years.

  3. #43
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    We need to grow used to the idea that in a more balanced world there will be many nations working to secure the interests they see as vital to them.

    Some will invite many larger nations to trade with them and to provide some aspect of their mutual security. For example, I can see where Vietnam would see nothing incongruous about having ships from US, Russian, Chinese and Indian navies all in port in Cam Ranh at the same time. Best to keep ones options open.

    Some will go out into the world and ensure they have access to resources, markets and reliable nodes to sustain their security forces. A US sharing the benefits of a global market should recognize the benfits of sharing security duties for the access to those markets as well.

    The US will remain the biggest dog in the pack for years to come, but our days of playing the lone wolf (or leader of a pack of lesser dogs subservient to our will and interests as we define them) are about over.
    Last edited by Bob's World; 08-07-2012 at 04:42 PM.
    Robert C. Jones
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  4. #44
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    What Russian professes they want to do and what they can do are two different things. They don't have much and unless they fix their demographic problem and become something other than a mafia state, they will have less in the future.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  5. #45
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Default Like I Keep Saying It's All About The Missiles!

    Until Directed Energy Weapons become truly viable it is all about guided missiles. And regardless of what the long term outlook for Russia is, Putin will be a formidable adversary in the coming years for America. The more we push for a so called Missile Defense for Europe the more you will see a Russian Missile push back. Naval ports and Missiles....that is something that Russia has a long history with and they are good at it.

  6. #46
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Slap:

    I am beginning to see your point about missiles.

    Speaking of directed energy weapons, Information Dissemination recently had this about USN lasers.

    http://www.informationdissemination....lk-lasers.html

    The Russians seem to do missiles well but when talking about sea fighting that often means ships or planes, if only to carry the missiles to within launch range and to target them. In the Russians case they don't have much in the way of ships and planes. And since sea fighting is most often conducted by navies, and the Russian Navy has about the worst history of accomplishment of any navy I can think of, I can't see what Russia can do coming anywhere close to what they say.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  7. #47
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Sharing in the Seychelles?

    A quick search on Google found numerous reports of the USA having a facility for drones in the Seychelles, plus China wanting to have access for its navy. Not to overlook the close relationship India has with the Seychelles.

    IIRC the USA has a possibly commercially run military satellite station there too.

    So a Russian base or access to facilities will fit in very nicely.
    davidbfpo

  8. #48
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

    It is only the second time since 2009 that a Russian attack submarine has patrolled so close to U.S. shores.
    http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/
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  9. #49
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Stay calm, spend wisely

    Even if Bill Gertz is the author of the cited article (having left The Washington Times), the language is colourful, almost as if the Akula was at Kings Bay, not in the Gulf of Mexico:
    The latest submarine incursion in the Gulf...
    Plus a lot of jigsaw pieces all being added together - to support more defence spending. Such as the P-8, which has struggled to be sold:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_P-8_Poseidon

    Elsewhere on SWC and an ocean away in the South China Sea freedom of navigation for all is cited as under threat by China. The Russian Akula was just doing that, exercising in international waters; something of course the USN SSK never do of course.

    Then Gertz adds:
    A second, alarming air incursion took place July 4 on the West Coast when a Bear H strategic bomber flew into U.S. airspace near California and was met by U.S. interceptor jets.
    Similar flights by Bear bombers have been reported in the UK, but when examined closely the 'airspace' was not territorial airspace, but the UK air defence and civil aviation area - a very different legal concept, which has no standing in international law.

    Given Gertz's record for obtaining help from within officialdom, one can happily speculate whose best interests are served by this unconfirmed report.
    davidbfpo

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Given Gertz's record for obtaining help from within officialdom, one can happily speculate whose best interests are served by this unconfirmed report.
    Yeah, and?

    Gertz paints a pretty plain picture.
    The submarine patrol also exposed what U.S. officials said were deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities—forces that are facing cuts under the Obama administration’s plan to reduce defense spending by $487 billion over the next 10 years.
    Perhaps Gertz is stumping for the ASW funding proponents, but it's not mutually exclusive to point out 1) that the Russians are getting back into the habit of flexing their muscles, and 2) a Russian sub sat on our doorstep twiddling it's thumbs for a month while 3) the USN leadership is engaged in sexual pattycakes and generally poor seamanship.
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  11. #51
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    deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities
    Ooooold story.

    Stories about ASW deficiencies are available in abundance and it affects all classic forces.

    Aerial ASW is a near-impotent museum piece from WW2 that does no more than to force the hostile subs to be cautious.

    Classic surface ASW with passive sonar (towed or hull mounted doesn't matter) are in peril against old SSNs and at the same time totally useless targets in face of a modern hostile SSK.

    Surface ASW is potent with low frequency active sonars, but the emitters should be detached from major surface units if not even dispersed. Survival of surface units still depends on being silent, that is "slow" unless they sail; cavitation begins with the relatively small surface ship screws already at speeds well below what classic tea clippers were able to achieve.
    Most if not all "modern"(-time) navies insist on the classic impressive warship basis instead of accepting the need for many small units. It's a bit reminiscent of 10+ battleship WW2 navies being forced to build 500+ sub hunters during wartime.

    SSNs are fine at defeating obsolete loud other SSNs, but fail regularly even at the detection of modern hostile SSKs.

    Modern SSKs are less prone to be found by other modern SSKs, but this works both ways. They're also often too slow to intercept a 15 kts cruising convoy and certainly too slow to escort it.

  12. #52
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    The Akula is a very good sub which we already knew but this further confirms that.

    If we didn't know the boat sailed from Russia, crossed the Atlantic and cruised around the Caribbean for a month, how did we know that it left and how did we know it was there for a month?
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  13. #53
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    Afaik some other source suggested that the Russians were on sightseeing tour, taking enough periscope photos as souvenirs.

    Periscope shot souvenirs are apparently popular among sub drivers.

  14. #54
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    I have another question for people who know about these things. Does this mean SOSUS isn't very useful anymore?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    I have another question for people who know about these things. Does this mean SOSUS isn't very useful anymore?
    Col. MacGregor (the Army Colonel Tank Commander) has been hired by the US Navy to basically re-do the whole underwater detection sensor network. So I think SOSUS is going to get a big upgrade so UUAV (Underwater Unmanned Attack Vehicles) can be used.

    I had an article I had saved about a Soviet Missile launching sub crusing the Gulf Of Mexico undetectedI was going to post but I am not sure what I did with it but it is out there in cyber-space somewhere.

    Don't never trust them Ruskies!

  16. #56
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    One of the distinguishing characteristics of Vladimir Putin’s presidency has been his commitment to revitalizing Russia’s military. Putin, who has noted that Russia’s perceived weakness makes it vulnerable to external pressure and internal disruption, is pushing for increased funding to transform the Russian armed forces from the debilitated remnants inherited from the old Soviet superpower military machine into a smaller, but more modern, mobile, technologically advanced and capable twenty-first century force.
    http://www.mynews13.com/content/news...cing_in_f.html
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  17. #57
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    What Putin wants may not be what Putin gets. In order to get where he says they want to go they would have to, a. overcome a demographic problem of historic magnitude, b. transform the gov into something other than a kleptocracy, c. develop an economy that can do something other than mine and sell the product and d. actually exert full control over their nation, right now they don't dare draft men from Chechnya.

    None of this is to say they can't make trouble over the years. And none of it is to say we should ignore them, but Putin's dream of returning to the days of the Russian colossus will remain a dream unless things at home get fixed. My opinion anyway.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  18. #58
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    MOSCOW (AP) — Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to a conventional strike and sees them as a "great equalizer" reducing the likelihood of aggression, a senior Russian official said Wednesday.

    While Russia amended its military doctrine years ago to allow for the possibility of using nuclear weapons first in retaliation to a non-nuclear attack, the statement by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin reflected Moscow's concern about prospective U.S. conventional weapons.

    Weapons that have been developed in the United States under the so-called "prompt global strike" program would be capable of striking targets anywhere in the world in as little as an hour with deadly precision. Russia, which has lagged far behind in developing such weapons, has described them as destabilizing.
    http://news.yahoo.com/russia-may-ans...155829813.html


    MOSCOW, December 10 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s military will have 500,000 soldiers serving on professional contracts within a decade, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Tuesday.

    Half of the armed forces will be made up of professional service personnel by 2022 under plans to shift away from conscripts and more than double the number of contract soldiers from the present 220,000.
    http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131210/185434281.html
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  19. #59
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    Swedish FOI publication "Russian Military Capability in a Ten-Year Perspective - 2013"

    http://foi.se/ReportFiles/foir_3734.pdf

  20. #60
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    Fresher related thread.
    http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=8464

    Moderator adds: Thanks for identification of the other thread, it has now been merged into this one (ends).
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 01-20-2014 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Add note
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