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Thread: UK Counter-Terrorism (merged thread)

  1. #21
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Academic broadside

    This Chatham House research paper is difficult to read. If you are looking for a clear description of the Muslim factor in the UK, go elsewhere! Looking for help with countering the terrorist who hides within the community, not here either.

    davidbfpo
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-12-2017 at 07:27 PM.

  2. #22
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Thinking about the bombers

    For sometime since the London and Glasgow bombings, on Friday 29th and Saturday 30th June 2007, I've been wondering about the propaganda aspect.

    The Haymarket bomb was left outside a night club, on a "ladies night" and any explosion would have been recorded on some CCTV and mobilephone cameras. This was the first car id'd, where the bomb failed to detonate. The second bomb was left nearby, possibly where crowds would have been directed / assembled and was removed for parking enforcement reasons - only later being id'd as carrying a bomb.

    In the 7th July 2005 suicide bombings the most iconic image is the London Transport red double-decker bus; the only bomb that went off on the surface, reportedly by mistake. The bombs on the Tube were initially only seen on very poor quality mobilephone camera pictures.

    The Glasgow airport bomb attack, ramming a entry door to the passenger terminal, was recorded on CCTV and mobilephones / video cameras - within minutes footage was on the TV (some of it stunning). Why the bombers chose this target is reported as dictated by proximity and aiming to cause mass casualties.

    We all know AQ and others regularly video their attacks and later put their footage on the web etc. Armed propaganda.

    What would have happened had the bombs in London been put in place adjacent to the route of the Gay Pride march, Saturday 30th June 2007? I assume the route through central London (possibly near to Haymarket) would have been cleared of vehicles, but not the side streets. I have excluded the report that the bombs are reported as being poorly constructed and maybe not effective.

    A Muslim contact when asked about this replied "Oh dear, that would have been awful. These people hate gays so much".

    Would the bombers known of the Gay Pride march? Hardly likely to read the gay / pink press I'd suggest. Helped by not living in London, but Glasgow hundreds of miles away.

    Are we missing a factor in countering terrorist bombing - that the outrage is captured on video footage taken by the public and will be on the TV / web quickly?

    No public presence, no bombs.

    The presence of CCTV in the UK metropolitan areas being assumed and not usually released to the public for sometime. Or retained for evidential purposes.

    SWJ possibly a strategic communication thread?

    Thanks to Rob T. and Jon C. for listening to this theory and encouraging me to "air" it on SWJ.

    davidbfpo

  3. #23
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Own goal - UK CT policy decisions

    In today's Daily Telegraph, under the title 'Repressive law turns terrorists into martyrs', a guest opinion column by Col. Tim Collins (of Gulf War fame for his message before war commenced): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../03/do0304.xml

    Pungent as one would expect from him; draws upon his Northern Ireland experience and the UK governments proposal for 42 days detention before charge (passed first legislative stage).

    davidbfpo

  4. #24
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    In today's Daily Telegraph, under the title 'Repressive law turns terrorists into martyrs', a guest opinion column by Col. Tim Collins (of Gulf War fame for his message before war commenced): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../03/do0304.xml

    Pungent as one would expect from him; draws upon his Northern Ireland experience and the UK governments proposal for 42 days detention before charge (passed first legislative stage).

    davidbfpo
    Thanks David, I read Collin's op-ed this morning and linked to it from the SWJ daily news roundup. Good read and food for thought. I also remember his message just prior to crossing the LOD during OIF I. Great stuff and spot on in my most humble opion.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    In today's Daily Telegraph, under the title 'Repressive law turns terrorists into martyrs', a guest opinion column by Col. Tim Collins (of Gulf War fame for his message before war commenced): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../03/do0304.xml

    Pungent as one would expect from him; draws upon his Northern Ireland experience and the UK governments proposal for 42 days detention before charge (passed first legislative stage).

    davidbfpo
    Indeed.

    It would seem that the Government misses few opportunities to ignore the sound advice of experienced professionals in such matters. Is it simple incompetence, bad advice, or a reflection of a particular mentality?

  6. #26
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfolk View Post
    Indeed.

    It would seem that the Government misses few opportunities to ignore the sound advice of experienced professionals in such matters. Is it simple incompetence, bad advice, or a reflection of a particular mentality?
    A mixture of all three factors plus some others. So much of the government's policy on counter-terrorism, plus many other areas of policy, is theatre: make an announcement that appears effective, introduce new laws (often badly worded to the point of being worthless) and then wonder why no-one uses them. The Financial Times is the only UK paper to ask a year on, after one Tony Blair statement what happened to the announced policies.

    The classic was deploying light armour, tanks to London Heathrow airport a few years ago in response to a perceived threat to aviation; loved the footage until someone asked what value were they and then blamed the Army for giving them only one response option.

    davidbfpo

  7. #27
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi David,

    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    So much of the government's policy on counter-terrorism, plus many other areas of policy, is theatre: make an announcement that appears effective, introduce new laws (often badly worded to the point of being worthless) and then wonder why no-one uses them.
    And pretty bad theatre, too! That was certainly my impression upon reading "Promoting Good Campus Relations, Fostering Shared Values and Preventing Violent Extremism in Universities and Higher Education Colleges" - schlock that wouldn't have more than a two night run if it wasn't financed by the Gov't!

    In a lot of ways, I am reminded of the reactions that appeared in North America surrounding the Satanism Scare (Google, Amazon) of the 80's and early 90's. Bad theatre, bad social science, and just plain silliness all around.
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
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  8. #28
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Campus theatre?

    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    And pretty bad theatre, too! That was certainly my impression upon reading "Promoting Good Campus Relations, Fostering Shared Values and Preventing Violent Extremism in Universities and Higher Education Colleges" - schlock that wouldn't have more than a two night run if it wasn't financed by the Gov't!
    Yes, an amazing document, which the university heads appeared to accept, but was rejected by the main campus teaching union and national student union. 'Hate Crime' is an acceptable topic, not radicalisation / extremism. It does contain some good parts. Just to help things along there were two arrests at Nottingham University, when someone noted a "terrorist manual" had been printed off for a student (PM for more details, although on the Kings of War blogsite).

    How do US / Canadian universities react to these issues?

    davidbfpo

  9. #29
    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Default

    Most of the universities I've been around tend to ignore those issues, at least on the basic level. You'll see some pontification by administrators on one subject or another, but the student body on the whole ignores it and goes about their business. College athletics are the big money maker these days, along with research, and it tends to draw better if the school avoids taking a stand on anything until after something bad happens.

    Sorry if that sounds cynical, but I've seen more ink spilled about the "need" for an indoor practice facility for the football team than I have any real examination of extremism or academic dishonesty. The standard answer seems to be to commission a committee to do a study, publish the report, and then go on as before unless there is potential for a lawsuit. Then some changes may be made, but they'll be small and not impact major activities in any noticeable way.

    Of course, this also varies depending on the university in question. Land grant schools tend to be somewhat less excitable (and less prone to open political stances) than their state and private university relations. There's a certain regional factor that comes into play in many cases and with many situations. At least based on what I've seen. YMMV, as always with these things.
    "On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare."
    T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War

  10. #30
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Academic study of terrorism - the limits?

    The arrests at Nottingham Univeristy, UK rolls on - after the university announces a new policy: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...ode=402844&c=2

    Previous article: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...orycode=402125

    An arcane dispute for some.

    davidbfpo

  11. #31
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    My own faculty has challenged my research and students reports we've written. As recently as last semester I was challenged as unpatriotic, evil, and supporting terrorism for posting a paper dealing with the US Navy Marine Corps Intranet Project. So far no black helicopters have shown up, and nobody with dark glasses following me.
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  12. #32
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    Default Interagency Coordination: A Case Study of the 2005 London Bombings

    NIJ, 15 Jul 08: Interagency Coordination: A Case Study of the 2005 London Train Bombings
    This article is based on our research regarding the multiagency response to the London attacks, including barriers and ways to overcome them. As part of that National Institute of Justice-funded study, we interviewed officials from law enforcement, fire and medical services, and public health agencies who were directly involved in the July 2005 London response. We asked about their role during the response, the strategies for coordination that facilitated it, the barriers they encountered and possible strategies for improving coordination among agencies responding to emergencies.
    NIJ, 27 Oct 08: Interagency Coordination: Lessons Learned From the 2005 London Train Bombings (Part Two)
    .....We found that although protocols followed by the multiple agencies that responded to the attacks largely minimized major problems, communication, leadership and legal difficulties did affect the coordination efforts.

    The primary issues reported to us during our interviews related to communication and leadership.

  13. #33
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default UK CT strategy: new edition

    After much publicity and commentary beforehand the UK government has re-launched the national CT strategy, now called Operation Contest Two and states a far more detailed explanation of the threat is given. A rather bulky document and only part read so far: http://security.homeoffice.gov.uk/ne...df?view=Binary

    One quick comment by the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7961299.stm

    I am not sure if the Pied Piper theory of counter-radicalisation appears.

    davidbfpo

  14. #34
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    Default Reference thread

    Please take a look at this thread, post #32.

  15. #35
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default UK Counter-Terrorism (merged thread)

    The former Met Police national CT chief, Andy Hayman (2005 till December 2007), recently wrote a book on his experiences 'The Terrorist Hunters', that on 2nd July 2009 the day before public sale was hit by a civil injunction and banned (numerous newslinks, just one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8130520.stm ).

    On 29th June 2009 he was interviewed by the BBC hardtalk programme and in just twenty four minutes talks widely. Civil liberties, public safety and much more discussed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...k_Andy_Hayman/ A shorter interview on Sky: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/vid...tegory=UK+News

    His book was partly released in parts in The Times, with critical comments on the UK government stuctures: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6552590.ece and supporting a 7/7 inquiry http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6539369.ece

    The book had been released for reviews and is commended in: http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6619300.ece

    The legal case is back in court today and the grounds for the ban have yet to be given. The book is likely to be on sale outside the UK, similar to the 'Spycatcher' affair many years ago and became a bestseller.

    davidbfpo

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    Default Hi

    He fell out with the politicians. This will be interesting.

  17. #37
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Puzzling - a silent court case

    MajorMarginal,

    In a very odd way this case has fallen out of view, even Andy hayman's own website: http://andyhayman.com/index.html has little to say about what has happened to the injunction. Previously the website referred to a court hearing last Friday, earlier his week it reported the case had disappeared from the listing. Today's update suggests Scottish politicians (not Labour, but Scottish Nationalists) are upset at his comments.

    As befits a modern society some of his books were sold publically, aside from numerous review copies in circulation.

    Puzzling start to a legal case.

    davidbfpo

  18. #38
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    Default Hi

    This should be good for sales when the book does come out. Could your courts silence him under libel laws or security procedures? This will be impossible now that some copies are out.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    MajorMarginal,

    In a very odd way this case has fallen out of view, even Andy hayman's own website: http://andyhayman.com/index.html has little to say about what has happened to the injunction. Previously the website referred to a court hearing last Friday, earlier his week it reported the case had disappeared from the listing. Today's update suggests Scottish politicians (not Labour, but Scottish Nationalists) are upset at his comments.

    As befits a modern society some of his books were sold publically, aside from numerous review copies in circulation.

    Puzzling start to a legal case.

    davidbfpo

  19. #39
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    Why are the Scottish nationalists upset?

  20. #40
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Silence the author?

    Quote Originally Posted by Majormarginal View Post
    This should be good for sales when the book does come out. Could your courts silence him under libel laws or security procedures? This will be impossible now that some copies are out.
    Better sales potential is expected, dependent on how long it takes the civil case to be resolved. I'm not a lawyer, libel laws are unlikely to be a factor in the government's injunction (the grounds for which are still, unusually, in public).

    The author and assistant are very aware of the security procedures. Normally such publications are voluntarily submitted to interested parties for review, sometimes deletions are requested (there is another critical book currently where the author said no, as the information was in the public domain already and publication went ahead).

    Andy Hayman worked in the Met and so the current Commissioner's views are of note: Sir Paul Stephenson, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, complained last week that he had not been given a preview of the book’s contents. He questioned whether senior officers should be allowed to publish books of this kind about their period in service. Sir Paul said: “I find it surprising as commissioner that I have no right on this occasion to have access to the book before it is published. That surprises me. It is troublesome and it does not help good conduct.”

    For some deeper reading I'd suggest this: http://rachelnorthlondon.blogspot.co...onspiracy.html

    davidbfpo
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-18-2009 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Add link

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