Gunmen attack Fort Hood, Texas

[jmm99]

from Schmedlap
I don't think that a lawyer can advise his client to deliberately break the law.

but, a lawyer can advise his client not only of the legal option (here obey the order), but also the maximum consequences, the minimum consequences and the probable consequences of not taking the legal option. It's up to the client to make his choice - call me (the lawyer) after you make your decision.

I have no idea of who represented MAJ Hasan and am not inclined to find out by calling some of my "lawyer buddies" or anyone else. That lawyer is not likely to say what he did or did not advise his client.

Going to the guts of the matter, a claim of CO status could also have been made based on his religious belief that non-Muslim forces should not place a foot down in Muslim lands - lots of Sharia authority for that. And, that would be a good time to advise the client of the consequences of refusing the order if the CO defense failed.

Guys, MAJ Hasan's classmate on Anderson Cooper (CNN 360, a few hours ago) told of Hasan's powerpoint presentations about Islamic doctrine, etc., in classes having nothing to do with Islam. I'm curious whether they found the AQ Reader among his possessions. Anyway, this guy's extreme Salafist views were not something recent but go back to Walter Reed classes. I expect that like statements are going to multiply as more and more people take their 15 minutes at the mic.

[jmm99]

but here are Selected Works of Randy Borum.

From Preventing Targeted Violence Against Judicial Officials and Courts:

Assassination myths and ECSP findings

There are three beliefs about assassination that have been widely held and perpetuated in the popular culture: (1) there is a profile of “the assassin,” (2) assassinations are the result of mental illness or derangement, and (3) those who make threats pose the greatest risk. These beliefs, however, were largely unsupported by data from the ECSP and do not withstand critical thinking about assassination behaviors. Because these beliefs are untrue, they are now known to be myths.

Much fuller explanation in article. And some key observations:

Key observations on assassinations and attacks

A number of key observations about assassins and their behaviors have emerged from the ECSP. The first is that targeted violence is the end result of an understandable, and often discernible, process of thinking and behavior. Assassinations, attacks, and near-attacks, almost without exception, were neither impulsive nor spontaneous acts. The notion of attacking a public official or public figure did not leap into the mind of a person standing, for example, at a political rally attended by the president. Assassins were not impelled into immediate violent action by sudden new thoughts that popped into their heads. Rather, ideas of assassination developed over weeks and months, even years. For some would-be attackers, such thinking organizes their lives, providing a sense of meaning and purpose or an ending point when they believe their emotional pain will cease. For others, thinking about assassination is compartmentalized.

Some potential assassins engage in ongoing internal discussions about their attacks while maintaining outward appearances of normality and regularity. In every case, however, assassination was the end result of an understandable process involving the attacker’s pattern of thoughts, decisions, behaviors, and actions that preceded the attack (Fein and Vossekuil 1998, 1999).

More in the article.

[slapout9]

jmm99, that is right a lot of what this guy did happened in my own situation when I was ambushed at my house. The guy had started giving away his personal belongings and moving out some of his furniture just like Nasan a lot of other behvioral indicators are present to. In my case he had a shotgun, a .44 magnum, and a colt .380 mustang and he just opened up on me while I was walking to my front door of my house with my wife. I posted an article about it from a Police Magazine a few years back, it is on SWC somewhere I guess. All this happened after a 6 month stalking episode so a lot of what happend at Ft. Hood is pretty close to how these incidents happen. The Pathway to murder is the pathway to murder. As awful as it is there just isn't really that much mystery to them IMO.

[omarali50]

jmm99, ..The Pathway to murder is the pathway to murder. As awful as it is there just isn't really that much mystery to them IMO.

You remind me of the dialogue from "the usual suspects" where Verbal Kent says "to a policeman, things are not that complicated..." or words to that effect.

The immediate outbreak of Oprah style mumbojumbo on every network (including FOX where one cannot think it is motivated by fear of Islamophobia) shows that this goes beyond political correctness ...This is a culture wide phenomenon and its decadent and disturbing.

EVERY event seems to be followed by instant groupthink about "stress" and the emotional toll of tours of duty without even the most cursory attempt at some kind of logical connection. As an immigrant who supposedly moved here by choice, this is one of the things that sets my teeth on edge....is this terminal decline? I certainly hope not. But its shockingly common and almost automatic.

[MikeF]

The immediate outbreak of Oprah style mumbojumbo on every network (including FOX where one cannot think it is motivated by fear of Islamophobia) shows that this goes beyond political correctness ...This is a culture wide phenomenon and its decadent and disturbing.

Omarali,

I have been considering your comments over the last several days, and I can only think of the damage that Major has done for American Muslims and Islamophobia in general. Last night, clips of radical Islamists in NYC were shown over and over praising this idiot.

My suggestion to Islamic leaders would be to have an IO message clearly stating to it's followers what a selfish and unIslamic act that major did.

I certainly hope that his actions are minimized. I heard an articulate Army Major (who happened to be Muslim) on NPR yesterday rightly state that Islam had been in America since we first introduced slavery and Muslims had been fighting in the Army ever since the Revolutionary War.

[Presley Cannady]

Omarali,

I have been considering your comments over the last several days, and I can only think of the damage that Major has done for American Muslims and Islamophobia in general. Last night, clips of radical Islamists in NYC were shown over and over praising this idiot.

Three years on from 9/11, almost half of Americans favored curtailing American Muslim civil liberties to some extent. Doesn't tell us much about undecideds on this matter, but as a matter of political practicality Hasan could hardly do much more damage than Islamic jihadists have already done.

My suggestion to Islamic leaders would be to have an IO message clearly stating to it's followers what a selfish and unIslamic act that major did.

Problem is there is no leadership per se, particularly in the foreign-born Muslim community, and what national organizations there are have tainted reputations stemming from ties between their staffs, affiliates and terrorist organizations. Moreover, Islam world-wide today has a heavy investment in a number of matters of a political nature; analogous to the pro-life movement but tarnished by activists with a far worse capability and reputation for malevolent violence. I fear that we've seen the politics here crystallize to the point where we've a zero-sum game between the West and the landscape of Muslim aspiration.

[MikeF]

[url=http://arabsandterrorism.com/resources/Restrictions_on_Civil_Libe.pdf]
Problem is there is no leadership per se, particularly in the foreign-born Muslim community, and what national organizations there are have tainted reputations stemming from ties between their staffs, affiliates and terrorist organizations. Moreover, Islam world-wide today has a heavy investment in a number of matters of a political nature; analogous to the pro-life movement but tarnished by activists with a far worse capability and reputation for malevolent violence.

Excellent point, and it leads into the on-going debate between centralized/de-centralized efforts in COIN. Studying through gangs and insurgencies, even when the national level efforts are failing, local leaders can influence their people on the village level. In this case, local imams or respected leaders in the community must emphasize to population that these actions are murder and illegal.

I fear that we've seen the politics here crystallize to the point where we've a zero-sum game between the West and the landscape of Muslim aspiration.

I don't think we're there yet (at least I hope not). We haven't seen the masses protesting in the street or significant anti-Muslim violence.

[slapout9]

You remind me of the dialogue from "the usual suspects" where Verbal Kent says "to a policeman, things are not that complicated..." or words to that effect.

Thank You, I take that as a compliment, because things are not that complicated. If you remember the end of the movie where they go through the whole process and discussion of Kaiser Soze (Kevin Spacey) he used a lot of lies and mumbo jumbo to cover up the fact that he was just a plain old criminal. A little smarter than most but still just a criminal.
Major Nasan hijacked a religion to justify his criminal action, just like David Karesh did in Waco Texas but that was Christianity not Islam, nothing but a vehicle of justification for a criminal act.

[jmm99]

not necessarily "minimize" - and definitely do not "maximize".

Mike, you gave the example of an Army O-4 (a Muslim officer).

Last nite, I listened to a Navy (ret.) O-4 (also a Muslim officer), who has formed an organization aimed at separation of Mosque and State (as he put it). More broadly, he sees American values not only in accord with Islamic values, but as providing the best way for Muslims to practice their religiion freely.

And, we have another Navy O-4 (a Muslim officer), Youssef Aboul-Enein, who co-authored Islamic Rulings on Warfare, which you will find discussed in this post.

Tim McVeigh and MAJ Hasan are good comparatives (credit: Uboat509). Whether the man hijacked the ideology or whether the ideology hijacked the man becomes a chicken-egg question. At some point, the two began working together and, in those two individuals, resulted in lethal mixes. Can lethal mixes be predicted and prevented ? I doubt it. Thousands of people read the Turner Diaries. Very few acted them out and none went so far as Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

[MikeF]

jmm99, that is right a lot of what this guy did happened in my own situation when I was ambushed at my house. The guy had started giving away his personal belongings and moving out some of his furniture just like Nasan a lot of other behvioral indicators are present to. In my case he had a shotgun, a .44 magnum, and a colt .380 mustang and he just opened up on me while I was walking to my front door of my house with my wife. I posted an article about it from a Police Magazine a few years back, it is on SWC somewhere I guess. All this happened after a 6 month stalking episode so a lot of what happend at Ft. Hood is pretty close to how these incidents happen. The Pathway to murder is the pathway to murder. As awful as it is there just isn't really that much mystery to them IMO.

The LE and lawyers analysis from Schmedlap, Slap, JMM, and others is quickly overcoming my social scientist background. Words mean things and motive seems the appropriate term to capture perceived grievances, disgruntled emotions, and ideology as I'm considering this case and suicide bombers in general.

I had a sociologist brief a provactive lecture that the 21st century is going to be the century of the empowered individual. Not really anything new (John Brown comes to mind), but with the advances in technology in media, he suggested that we will see a rise in aggravated sensational murders in a twisted way to make a statement or influence policy.

I would suggest that we minimize this dude as a traitor and murderer. If we overeact and tighten security measures on bases, start broadcasting that soldiers are victims, or change policy in A'stan/Iraq, then he wins.

The best thing we can do is mourn the victims, praise the first responders as heroes, and get back to our normal lives.

Mike

[Dr. C]

I would suggest that we minimize this dude as a traitor and murderer. If we overeact and tighten security measures on bases, start broadcasting that soldiers are victims, or change policy in A'stan/Iraq, then he wins.

The best thing we can do is mourn the victims, praise the first responders as heroes, and get back to our normal lives.

Mike

Mike: I hesitated to comment in the forum because I'm not sure what words are really best.

I have a few questions.

1. What is the correct leadership response? Isn't it possible that the Soldiers who were in the room and were shot at might need or want some time or help to heal emotionally before deploying to Iraq, or just Soldiering on?

2. How will the Army investigate itself about the career track of the shooter? Was the investment of tax dollars in his training and education worth the risk of keeping him in if there were any signs of trouble?

I grieve what's happened at Hood. It's obviously shocked a lot of people that a brother could kill his own. To be honest, I went through the grieving stages a while ago when these mass shootings started, especially at places like schools where classmates can kill people they sit side by side with on a daily basis. The response is usually more security, when I believe it's about individuals listening and paying more attention to their gut instincts. How can that be taught so people aren't just filed through the system if there are red flags?

One thing that has struck me as a civilian with no prior military experience is the assumption from military personnel, especially if they've lived most of their lives on Army posts, that civilians aren't used to being shot at or that we're so different we don't know how to be empathetic about their combat experience, for those in the military who have combat experience.

[MikeF]

Michelle,

First, you should grieve. It's healthy. This was a tragedy, and it's sad. My heart broke when I heard about it. For many of us, it is frustrating b/c we can't do anything (lack of control).

Second, take my responses with a grain of salt. It's just the way my brain works. For the moment, with this specific case, JMM, Schmedlap, and Slap are more appropriate. I tend to analyze and consider many things at once (ie suicide bombers and this dude). There will be many times that I have to say I was wrong.

1. What is the correct leadership response? Isn't it possible that the Soldiers who were in the room and were shot at might need or want some time or help to heal emotionally before deploying to Iraq, or just Soldiering on?

Most definitely yes, and from what I understand, we have already sent crisis response teams to Fort Hood. A combination of medical assistance, collective community grievance, and soldiering on is highly effective. For example, look at the differences in the gov'ts response to the Oklahoma City bombing and Hurricane Katrina. Over time, the resiliance of the people of OK can be perceived as a direct correlation to the initial response. It's the same response we take with combat stress teams in Iraq/A'stan. At one point, I observed a company collectively quit and refuse mission after they suffered severe casualties to include the company commander. After the crisis teams were brought in, and the unit was giving time to grieve, they were able to continue mission.

2. How will the Army investigate itself about the career track of the shooter? Was the investment of tax dollars in his training and education worth the risk of keeping him in if there were any signs of trouble?

If I was king, I'd be closely examining his chain-of command. There would probably be a lot of people fired.

[MikeF]

and something that i'm working on towards a paper on martyrdom. As uncomfortable as this stuff is, Wilf and the Good Book constantly remind us that there is nothing new under the sun.


Remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me. I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of my enemies for my two eyes. Let me die with the infidels!

The military officer planned his final attack. During the last days, he took careful consideration and meticulous care in preparation for his decisive action. He would free his people. He was extremely bright, calculating, and highly successful. To some, he was considered awkward and aloof. He was deeply thoughtful, spiritual, and religious, and he knew that God had left him at times in his life as he struggled with women, power, and life. In those final days, he abstained from impurities, cleansed himself, and prayed for discretion and discernment. His motive was pure. The grievances of his people from the infidels was unbearable. His anger, frustration, disenchantment demanded action. God demanded revenge. That morning, he struck killing his enemies and sacrificing his own life for the greater good.

In the Jewish and Christian faith, his name is Samson, and he is celebrated as an epic hero of Herculian proportions. To the Philistines, he was a terrorist. It has nothing to do with religion, ideology, or the so called post-modern world.