Green on Blue: causes and responses (merged thread)

[Ken White]

There is a matter of degree of course but in our history we have worked successfully with people from radically different cultures ..

I think you may wish to read a little more deeply into that thought. There was friction in many of the cases you cite, just didn't arise with folks who were into multi-generation blood feuds.

We have even successfully worked with Muslim men from a culture just as prickly if not more so than the Afghans, those being the Moro members of the Philippine Constabulary.

Also, the Moro Constabulary guys in the 5th Region were told by their Imams and Datus to go and to do good -- and they did. They were also locally receruited and employed. With the Afghans, we deliberately avoided local recruiting or getting elders and Imams involved. That doesn't mean we didn't know better, it means we deliberately decided to support other values. A mistake? Sure, one of many -- but stemming not so much from ignorance as from egos and arrogance "we know what's best..."

Having worked with Filipinos to include Muslims and with Afghans, I disagree with that assessment of temperament....

The important thing is that these killings may result in us getting bounced out of there much sooner and in a much more confused way than we are planning on. Maybe not of course, but I think that is more than possible edging into probable territory.

Given the extremely confused way we are now leaving, I doubt more confusion would be possible but if it were, it might even help. More speed in leaving, a more likely outcome would not be at all bad.

That reaction to set off factors may be different in Afghanistan than elsewhere is a very good point. But we have been there for 11 years.

No, we have not. We have been there for 11 one year or less tours, a very different thing.

We should know how things differ and make or have made changes in order to allow for those differences.

We do know but we cannot change the way we do business. Many thing we do are not really very smart but they are deeply imbedded and both societal and Congressional pressures as well as long standing policies preclude any significant change. You and I can talk about what's wrong until we're both blue in the face, we can agree on much of what should be changed but in the end, I'll tell you it will not be changed and you'll say that it isn't right. I'll then say "you're correct -- but it still won't change." We've already done that on this and similar topics. No sense in doing it again.

However, judging by the number of murders and their increasing frequency, we haven't.

Oh, many have -- problem is that most of 'em figure out what to do just before they rotate and and new guy comes in, won't listen to the old guy because he's smart (ego and arrogance again...) and proceeds to make the same mistakes...

I don't think things had to come to this point. But they have and I don't think much, if anything can be done about it.

In reverse order, I agree little to nothing can or will be done about it but disagree that it didn't have to come to this point. It did. The minute George W. Bush decided to change the game plan and stay in Afghanistan, it was pre-ordained. I was telling folks that right after I came on this board five years ago. Nothing's changed. Nothing. Except we told the world we were going to leave which just encouraged everyone involved -- including the homicidally inclined -- to cock a snook at anything American.