Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
You may have set a new standard for muddying the waters, JMA
No just responding to Brihard's comment on how improved the Canadian military is now as compared to the past. I suggest that when one reads some of the 1,000 pages of the Somalia Report one gets the impression that more than just the CAF should have been disbanded.

The Somali Affair--in which a few Canadian soldiers beat and killed a Somalia teen--took place in 1993, before women served in the infantry, and only a year after gays were allowed to openly serve. I doubt that there were any openly gay men in the Canadian Airborne Regiment at the time.
In fact "... the Somalia Inquiry cited problems in the leadership of the Canadian Forces." That is why I responded with the Somlia Report in response to Brihard's comment that the modern Canadian military is much improved on the performance of the past forces. His contention is clearly is not correct.

If you read the actual report, you'll see that poor pre-deployment discipline, racism, and an excessively macho attitudes in the field led to most of the mistakes and abuse that occurred at the time.
Too selective in your choice of problems the inquiry found. This is what the report found:

The failure was profoundly one of leadership. (my emphasis) Although in this report we have identified some individual failings - primarily in relation to the pre-deployment phase of the mission - the failings that we have recounted in the greatest detail have been those that concern organizational or group responsibility for institutional or systemic shortcomings. The CF and DND leaders to whom this applies are those who occupied the upper tier of their organizations during the relevant periods. The cadre of senior leaders who were responsible for the Somalia mission and its aftermath must bear responsibility for shortcomings in the organization they oversaw.
So we are back to Napoleon who said..."There are no bad soldiers, only bad officers."

It had nothing at all to do, of course with women or gays in the military. Indeed, the word homosexual only appears twice in the five volumes of the report. In both cases, it is simply highlighting that poor predeployment cultural awareness training led some soldiers to believe that casual Somali male physical contact (touching during conversation to emphasize a point, holding hands) was an outward sign of homosexuality--which, as anyone who knows Somalia would know, is not the case. Again, this had nothing to do with the incidents, and rather was being offered as evidence of the Regiment's weak preparation for the mission.
Agreed... but (as you know) that was not my point. My point (in posting a reference to the Somali Inquiry) was in response to Brihard's statement that the modern Canadian army is better now than it ever was. From all the evidence that contention is pure nonsense.

...oh yes and on the African males holding hands... that the Canadian troops were so ill informed on such an obvious matter leads one to wonder what else their officers failed to brief them on? RoE?

Indeed, given that excessive macho behaviour was partly at the root of Canada's Somalia problem, it seems logical that more women on deployment might have made the operation more effective, not less.
No Rex the report made it clear... at the heart of the problem was a profound failure in leadership.

So your comment re more women is laughable...

As a result of the inquiry--and to send the signal that abuse and racist behaviour was unacceptable in the Canadian Armed Forces--the entire Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded.
Only the CAF? I suggest the military got off lightly.

Next you'll be telling us that (snip)
No I won't Rex... because I don't need to throw a distraction to get a few laughs and take the eye of the real issue of my response to Brihard and that was that I question his contention that the modern Canadian army is better now than it has ever been.