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Thread: Ukraine: military (Aug '14 to mid-June '15) closed

  1. #2041
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    It appears that France, Germany and the US are talking today in Kyiv about a possible new deal and then France and Germany heads on to Russia.


    I whole heartedly recommend to the leaders of the West and especially the US to read the following series of books;
    1. "Game Theory' by the new current Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis
    AND ESPECIALLY this book;
    2. "Strategy of Conflict" by Thomas Schelling, 1980.

    In the "Strategy of Conflict" there is a concept that Schelling spends much time on called "The Game of/by/with Fire".

    WHY---because the concept is to drive your opponents by your taking the "game" literally "to the edge of the cliff" all the while providing reinforcement by yourself that you will really ready and even more so willing to go over the cliff to their detriment if need be.

    Territory which Russia occupied now in Ukraine is bigger than Transdnistria,Chechnya,Abkhazia & South Ossetia put together
    Putin wages war 2 win "recognition of #Russia as key global power"; #Ukraine "only tactical playground" - RU pol. pundit.
    Putin "prepares #Russia ppl 4 an open war/ #Ukraine portraying her on state TV as country of 2nd-class humans" - RU pol. Pundit


    Putin is being driven by ethno nationalism with a deep Russian fascism on what he views as his "Holy War" with the West and has in this "Holy War" three deeply seated geo political (political warfare) goals in mind that he wants to achieve. To him the Ukraine is simply his "playground" to drive those goals.

    1. detach forever the US from the EU/NATO
    2. discrediting of NATO
    3. discrediting of the EU and in the end the "destruction of western liberal/economical ideas.

    With that in mind Putin has unleased his military into eastern Ukraine after militarily annexing Crimea--while in eastern Ukraine he has razed complete Ukrainian towns and villages a la Grozny.

    He has unleased indiscriminate shellings of civilians and focused on shelling hospitals, schools, bus stops, residential housing ALL to give the impression that he is totally willing to go over the cliff and take Central Europe with him---notice he has been extremely silent lately and is letting his military do the "talking".

    Then he has unleased his mercenary proxies with a declaration of war on the Ukraine AND remember this all started because he wanted to "protect the Russian language" AND in the process he has virtually destroyed his own "ethnic Russian population" he swore was the "reason" in the first place in his Duma speech.

    By the way it is estimated his troops and his mercenaries are firing over 150 tons of artillery munitions per day and if that does not reinforce his "game" in the eyes of Western leaders nothing will.

    WHY is that?

    The goal of the "Game of/by/with Fire" is to get your opponents ie the "West" to do a total compromise--- but on your terms not theirs. Has he even shown the West he is willing to destroy his own economy to achieve his stated goals?-and has he even threatened "the use of tactical nukes"---yes he has.

    Actually check since the Crimea just how many times the Russian FM has uttered the suggestion that the EU/EEU should do an economic treaty and it was even picked up on by Merkel recently.

    NOW the question is ---has the West fully understood "Putin's Fire Game strategy"?

    Not really as the below seems to indicate that clearly the West ie the US and EU are literally afraid of "going over the cliff"--notice below exactly how afraid the French leader Hollande is of "going over the cliff"?

    Maybe one should send copies of the two books to each of the Western leaders-it does make interesting reading when compared to the Putin realities and the fighting on the ground in eastern Ukraine.

    AND it reinforces exactly why diplomacy as viewed by the West has literally failed---they simply do not understand "gaming theories" as it applies to international relations.

    Even the Islamic State fully understands and implements these "gaming theories" with every execution they conduct.

    From today:

    Hollande: "We will propose a new solution to the conflict based on the territorial integrity of Ukraine,” and discuss with Poroshenko/Putin.

    Judging by this unexpected visit today from Merkel and Hollande, they might be trying to outdo Chamberlain…

    Challenge for Merkel, Hollande, Kerry in Kiev. Explain why no mil help to Ukr supports dip solution while Russ escalating violence.
    #Hollande strongly favors diplomacy in #Ukraine: "France is not in a war in Ukraine & doesn't want to be in a war in #Ukraine." @FRANCE24

    Hollande: "We will make a new proposal to solve the conflict which will be based on Ukraine's territorial integrity." via @ReutersWorld

    BREAKING: German & French leaders to make crisis visit to Kiev w peace initiative amid escalating #Ukraine fighting
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31143983

    #Hollande reiterates that #France is opposed to #Ukraine joining #NATO. @FRANCE24
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-05-2015 at 11:37 AM.

  2. #2042
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    It appears that France, Germany and the US are talking today in Kyiv about a possible new deal and then France and Germany heads on to Russia.


    I whole heartedly recommend to the leaders of the West and especially the US to read the following series of books;
    1. "Game Theory' by the new current Greek Finance Minister Varoufakis
    AND ESPECIALLY this book;
    2. "Strategy of Conflict" by Thomas Schelling, 1980.

    In the "Strategy of Conflict" there is a concept that Schelling spends much time on called "The Game of/by/with Fire".

    WHY---because the concept is to drive your opponents by your taking the "game" literally "to the edge of the cliff" all the while providing reinforcement by yourself that you will really ready and even more so willing to go over the cliff to their detriment if need be.

    Territory which Russia occupied now in Ukraine is bigger than Transdnistria,Chechnya,Abkhazia & South Ossetia put together
    Putin wages war 2 win "recognition of #Russia as key global power"; #Ukraine "only tactical playground" - RU pol. pundit.
    Putin "prepares #Russia ppl 4 an open war/ #Ukraine portraying her on state TV as country of 2nd-class humans" - RU pol. Pundit


    Putin is being driven by ethno nationalism with a deep Russian fascism on what he views as his "Holy War" with the West and has in this "Holy War" three deeply seated geo political (political warfare) goals in mind that he wants to achieve. To him the Ukraine is simply his "playground" to drive those goals.

    1. detach forever the US from the EU/NATO
    2. discrediting of NATO
    3. discrediting of the EU and in the end the "destruction of western liberal/economical ideas.

    With that in mind Putin has unleased his military into eastern Ukraine after militarily annexing Crimea--while in eastern Ukraine he has razed complete Ukrainian towns and villages a la Grozny.

    He has unleased indiscriminate shellings of civilians and focused on shelling hospitals, schools, bus stops, residential housing ALL to give the impression that he is totally willing to go over the cliff and take Central Europe with him---notice he has been extremely silent lately and is letting his military do the "talking".

    Then he has unleased his mercenary proxies with a declaration of war on the Ukraine AND remember this all started because he wanted to "protect the Russian language" AND in the process he has virtually destroyed his own "ethnic Russian population" he swore was the "reason" in the first place in his Duma speech.

    By the way it is estimated his troops and his mercenaries are firing over 150 tons of artillery munitions per day and if that does not reinforce his "game" in the eyes of Western leaders nothing will.

    WHY is that?

    The goal of the "Game of/by/with Fire" is to get your opponents ie the "West" to do a total compromise--- but on your terms not theirs. Has he even shown the West he is willing to destroy his own economy to achieve his stated goals?-and has he even threatened "the use of tactical nukes"---yes he has.

    Actually check since the Crimea just how many times the Russian FM has uttered the suggestion that the EU/EEU should do an economic treaty and it was even picked up on by Merkel recently.

    NOW the question is ---has the West fully understood "Putin's Fire Game strategy"?

    Not really as the below seems to indicate that clearly the West ie the US and EU are literally afraid of "going over the cliff"--notice below exactly how afraid the French leader Hollande is of "going over the cliff"?

    Maybe one should send copies of the two books to each of the Western leaders-it does make interesting reading when compared to the Putin realities and the fighting on the ground in eastern Ukraine.

    AND it reinforces exactly why diplomacy as viewed by the West has literally failed---they simply do not understand "gaming theories" as it applies to international relations.

    Even the Islamic State fully understands and implements these "gaming theories" with every execution they conduct.

    From today:

    Hollande: "We will propose a new solution to the conflict based on the territorial integrity of Ukraine,” and discuss with Poroshenko/Putin.

    Judging by this unexpected visit today from Merkel and Hollande, they might be trying to outdo Chamberlain…

    Challenge for Merkel, Hollande, Kerry in Kiev. Explain why no mil help to Ukr supports dip solution while Russ escalating violence.
    #Hollande strongly favors diplomacy in #Ukraine: "France is not in a war in Ukraine & doesn't want to be in a war in #Ukraine." @FRANCE24

    Hollande: "We will make a new proposal to solve the conflict which will be based on Ukraine's territorial integrity." via @ReutersWorld

    BREAKING: German & French leaders to make crisis visit to Kiev w peace initiative amid escalating #Ukraine fighting
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31143983

    #Hollande reiterates that #France is opposed to #Ukraine joining #NATO. @FRANCE24
    I had not read the follow on reporting of the German/French proposals but NOW this does in fact prove the Schelling thesis of the "Game of Fire".

    A "frozen conflict" in the heart of Central Europe means in the end a Putin "win" and the long road out of Europe by the US and the eventual decline of the EU.

    Watch just how Poland and the Baltics react to these news reports?

    Merkel & Hollande propose a frozen conflict in Donbas http://www.interfax.ru/world/422202
    Interfax is claiming Merkel/Hollande proposing "smthing like Transdniester scenario" for eastern UKR. Say it's a lie! http://goo.gl/0GHS4z


    By the way Russia is in the process of "legalizing" their enclaves into the Russian Federation ie annexation.

    That fact seems to have been missed by France and Germany.

    What is also interesting is that Poland was part of the Maidan negotiating team together with France and Germany BUT has been basically and deliberately cut out by France, Germany and the US ever since that point as they dislike to a degree the Polish and Baltics views on Russia and that has lead the Baltics and Poland to constantly question the Us and NATO about their ability to backup Article 5 in case of another Russian move--IMHO the US and NATO will never go to war via Article 5 over a bunch of Russian speakers demanding more civil right and language protections.

    Polish ForMin Schetyna admits the first he heard of Hollande-Merkel visit to Kiev & Moscow was this morning. Says reckons Kopacz not invited

    If in fact this statement is correct then it does not bode well for both the EU/NATO in the coming months and will damage long term US Polish relations regardless of what the US states.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-05-2015 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #2043
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    Again more from the Russian chambers of "an altered state of reality".

    Russian Foreign Min spokesman Aleksandr Lukashevich says supply of US weapons to #Ukraine "could cause damage" to relations with #Russia

    NOTE: Russia escalated heavy weapons and troops into eastern Ukraine but the US cannot ship ATMs to stop the over 600 Russian tanks Putin has shipped there many still sporting on their sides the Russian Railroad shipping numbers?

    THEN this hits the internet---so US is to not arm the Ukrainians so Putin's Army has an easier "run" to Kyiv?

    #Putin is preparing a "major offensive" in #Ukraine, Illarionov does not exclude 'the march to #Kiev'
    http://translate.google.com/translat...ectId%3D539973

  4. #2044
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    #Nice, Russian army forces from #Chechnya ("Kavkaz") with own cars and insignia in #Donbas.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sgYeRYKp6A … pic.twitter.com/EVGmol0I8u

    #Luhansk oblast gouvernor Moskal: Militants shell Stanytsia Luhanska with cluster mines http://news.liga.net/news/politics/4...luganskuyu.htm

    BMP-2 in #Vuhlehirsk, Ukraine and before in #Kamensk-Shakhtinsk, Russia.http://youtu.be/CJm5bjM3Z5c?t=1m30s … pic.twitter.com/hSEPASIcHN

    Another Sign Moscow Preparing Massive Invasion of Ukraine – and Facing Problems Doing So http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com...g-massive.html

    First video evidence of multiple Russian tanks destroyed near Debaltseve in huge tank battle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSdDfsqt7I

    WoW Whoever are the few #Ukraine soldiers who held this (!) position against 20+ (!) #Russia tanks, they're amazing. This link no longer works alas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSdDf
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-05-2015 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Last link not working

  5. #2045
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    I had not read the follow on reporting of the German/French proposals but NOW this does in fact prove the Schelling thesis of the "Game of Fire".

    A "frozen conflict" in the heart of Central Europe means in the end a Putin "win" and the long road out of Europe by the US and the eventual decline of the EU.

    Watch just how Poland and the Baltics react to these news reports?

    Merkel & Hollande propose a frozen conflict in Donbas http://www.interfax.ru/world/422202
    Interfax is claiming Merkel/Hollande proposing "smthing like Transdniester scenario" for eastern UKR. Say it's a lie! http://goo.gl/0GHS4z


    By the way Russia is in the process of "legalizing" their enclaves into the Russian Federation ie annexation.

    That fact seems to have been missed by France and Germany.

    What is also interesting is that Poland was part of the Maidan negotiating team together with France and Germany BUT has been basically and deliberately cut out by France, Germany and the US ever since that point as they dislike to a degree the Polish and Baltics views on Russia and that has lead the Baltics and Poland to constantly question the Us and NATO about their ability to backup Article 5 in case of another Russian move--IMHO the US and NATO will never go to war via Article 5 over a bunch of Russian speakers demanding more civil right and language protections.

    Polish ForMin Schetyna admits the first he heard of Hollande-Merkel visit to Kiev & Moscow was this morning. Says reckons Kopacz not invited

    If in fact this statement is correct then it does not bode well for both the EU/NATO in the coming months and will damage long term US Polish relations regardless of what the US states.
    Sueddeutsche predicts this could be the last try to avoid a full-scale war between #Russia and #Ukraine:

    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/k...ifen-1.2337560

    Seems that the Russian mercenaries and Russian troops including Russian elite units have taken major losses in manpower and heavy armor and Putin is in fact being pushed to go for an all out full invasion---is it a "Game of Fire" bluff or has his loses actually endangered his survival as a Russian leader?

    Interesting question.

  6. #2046
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    Russia still having those "altered state of reality" problems with their statements these days.

    MOSCOW, February 5. /TASS/. Russia is concerned by the plans of creating a multinational brigade consisting of units of Lithuanian, Polish and Ukrainian armies, the Russian Foreign Ministry’s official spokesman, Alexander Lukashevich, said on Thursday.

    "The goals of establishing such a structure are a source of concern. The army of Ukraine, as Russian President Vladimir Putin said, already looks like a foreign legion," Lukashevich said.

    The Russian president compared Ukraine's army to a NATO legion with a geopolitical goal to contain Russia in late January.

    "In essence, this is already not an army, but a foreign legion, in this case NATO’s foreign legion that certainly does not pursue the goal of defending Ukraine’s national interests,” the president said.

    The defense ministers of Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania in September signed an agreement on the establishment of a military brigade “for participation in peacekeeping operations and strengthening regional cooperation”. The brigade was named after the first letters of participating nations: LITPOLUKRBRIG (LitPolUkrBrig).

    There are plans to use the brigade, up to 4,500-strong, under the UN and EU aegis. It is supposed to become fully operational in two years.

  7. #2047
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    Heavy shelling In Debaltseve now http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/5-febru...debaltseve-now

    Luhansk republic says ready for compromise on disengagement line at talks with Kiev http://tass.ru/en/world/775629

    Verified @Reuters photo: the remains of #Russia-backed "DPR" fighters killed in #Uglegorsk, #Ukraine on Feb 4th:
    18+ pic.twitter.com/0xLPE9C9LI

    US Ambdr to NATO, D. Lute: Russian units have parallel command structure that shadows separatists' command structure. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...es/515474.html

    Putin Berater Andrei Illarionov: "Ich gehe von einer totalen Invasion bis nach Kyiv aus." http://obozrevatel.com/politics/1756...j-ukrainoj.htm

    VIDEO #Ukraine troops near #Debaltseve show off captured #Russia T-72 tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehNqo-yyMk8#t=32 … pic.twitter.com/6r695nyfX3

    Geo-location #Russia Mercenaries Motorola "Sparta" unit. #Vuhlehirsk nr #Debaltseve end of village
    pic.twitter.com/nGt5hbKGlb
    This unit was previously at the Donetsk airport so the fighting and losses of the mercenaries must have been heavy for them to be moved.

    #Debaltseve vs #Ilovaisk
    RU forces can't sneak across the border nor use "safe" staging areas
    UA forces improved C&C skills


    ATO Headquarters: Ukrainian soldier found alive in Donetsk airport
    http://www.unian.info/war/1040725-at...k-airport.html … pic.twitter.com/6bMaGLMZLx

    "Wait for me Ukraine" . Russian Soldier from Murmansk pic.twitter.com/rpVnCgYJps

    Flashes of artillery impacts on horizon. Very close to town #Debaltseve http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/5-febru...zon-very-close

    Vice-governor and former vice-governor of #Krasnodar arrested for abuse of office http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2660700
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-05-2015 at 02:18 PM.

  8. #2048
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    I had not read the follow on reporting of the German/French proposals but NOW this does in fact prove the Schelling thesis of the "Game of Fire".

    A "frozen conflict" in the heart of Central Europe means in the end a Putin "win" and the long road out of Europe by the US and the eventual decline of the EU.

    Watch just how Poland and the Baltics react to these news reports?

    Merkel & Hollande propose a frozen conflict in Donbas http://www.interfax.ru/world/422202
    Interfax is claiming Merkel/Hollande proposing "smthing like Transdniester scenario" for eastern UKR. Say it's a lie! http://goo.gl/0GHS4z


    By the way Russia is in the process of "legalizing" their enclaves into the Russian Federation ie annexation.

    That fact seems to have been missed by France and Germany.

    What is also interesting is that Poland was part of the Maidan negotiating team together with France and Germany BUT has been basically and deliberately cut out by France, Germany and the US ever since that point as they dislike to a degree the Polish and Baltics views on Russia and that has lead the Baltics and Poland to constantly question the Us and NATO about their ability to backup Article 5 in case of another Russian move--IMHO the US and NATO will never go to war via Article 5 over a bunch of Russian speakers demanding more civil right and language protections.

    Polish ForMin Schetyna admits the first he heard of Hollande-Merkel visit to Kiev & Moscow was this morning. Says reckons Kopacz not invited

    If in fact this statement is correct then it does not bode well for both the EU/NATO in the coming months and will damage long term US Polish relations regardless of what the US states.
    Notice how nicely Putin is playing the "Game of Fire" with the Europeans?

    Russian proposal "not a peace plan..It is a cynical effort to get out of all the commitments made in Minsk" says western diplomat

    Western diplo says Russian plan to Merkel/Hollande "not a peace plan. It's a roadmap to creating a new Transnistria or Abkhazia in #Ukraine

    Putin has met with Russia's security council over Ukraine ahead of Merkel/Hollande visit - Peskov

  9. #2049
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    Moscow concerned by plans to form joint #Ukrainia-#Poland-#Lithuania military brigade: http://tass.ru/en/world/775671

    Poroshenko to declare martial law if conflict in Donbas zone escalates http://24today.net/open/299312

    VIDEO #Russia SAU 122mm self propelled guns #Gorlovka headn west https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrSdZkSPxiE

    IMAGE #Ukraine soldier atop a destroyed #Russia T-72B3 tank near #Vuhlehirsk #Debaltseve #Putin #Donetsk #Luhansk pic.twitter.com/5fUNzFAOfq

    VIDEO #Russia soldiers fr Eastern Mil District in #Vuhlehirsk #Debaltseve #Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CPD0He6LJM … pic.twitter.com/AQ7axIwXm8

    Saakashvili: Putin wants corridor to Transnistria
    http://uatoday.tv/news/saakashvili-p...ia-407418.html … pic.twitter.com/MjuIYSNaVw

  10. #2050
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    BREAKING: Discover 'grenades' fishing by #Russian servicemen in #Donetsk oblast, #Ukraine | EMPR http://empr.media/video/conflict-zon...ast-of-ukraine … (EN subtitles soon

    LifeNews Reporter in #Ukraine. Pervomaisk pic.twitter.com/QaHY6fn0VI

    This guy must really serving a prison sentence in Rostov. Now he's tank gunner in the LNR. Strange. pic.twitter.com/2YFBTkPTbN

    conscripts of Murmansk Brigade are going to Donbas pic.twitter.com/5fiRlmfVZd

    #Ukraine ATO - 190 #Russia terrorists killed & 7 pieces of armor destroyed near #Debaltseve http://en.censor.net.ua/news/323247/...o_press_center … pic.twitter.com/vGEiV3Q4lX

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    Again: the only "peace deal" Putin wants is one that gives Moscow Ukraine & a free hand in Eastern Europe. Everything else is maskirovka.

    Kerry dropped dud about no arms only "diplomacy" in Kiev, embarrassing embassy and Yatsenyuk.

    Kerry says French officials told him they received new peace ideas from Russian President Vladimir Putin, Germans also received Putin letter

    #Kerry says been informed by Germany, France they intend to make a counter-proposal to Russia offer to end violence in east #Ukraine-Reuters

    Kerry says #Merkel and #Hollande will give an alternative peace proposal to #Putin, implying that Putin had given his and it's unacceptable

  12. #2052
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    Interesting if true statements this week from the Russian FSB officer that started the eastern Ukraine Russian invasion.

    Strelkov: "Over the past 4 months the army of Ukraine has strengthened threefold. They did not give up even after the defeat last summer

    Strelkov: "Advance of Novorossiya troops was stopped. We have huge losses. Our fight is hopeless. No troops to encircle Debaltsevo"

    Strelkov: "Junta increases flow of weapons, training more troops while militia has no officers. Avdeevka and Pisky are too strengthened

    Strelkov: "Novorossiya is great idea, but DPR and LPR are banana republics. Their leaders are junta."

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    #Tymchuk -#Russia moved 1,200 troops & 55 armored vehicles to #Debaltseve http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/02/02/rus...rt_says_560755 … pic.twitter.com/4I24vMmj8h

    #Busted!
    Rus propaganda: Battle-damaged T-72 towed through #Debaltseve...
    IT'S #VUHLEHIRSK !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c2LOirOLWI … pic.twitter.com/nCxFo9Kisf

    VIDEO Ukrainians still defending positions near Donetsk Airport (weather station) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_UFlB5FKdM

    Russia tests new weapons in its war against Ukraine http://m.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31146595

    Russian cmdr tries to quell rebellion in Nikishino Ukraine where Russian forces are angry about losses & lack of pay http://youtu.be/kS9O8tgsXvE

  14. #2054
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    Russia has stated over and over there are a number of items it wants from the Ukraine --non bloc status, NO NATO and NO EU---notice they have left the NO EU out of the game right now but will come back to it as the EEU is falling apart.

    So if the German and French "peace proposals" indicate that the Ukraine is to be block neutral even after their Rada voted against it and it was signed into law and "federalization" based on Russian definition THEN Russia has achieved all it wanted.

    AND this is what the Germans and French think will secure "peace" in the coming years---will they repeat the same concept for the Baltics as well as Russia has already stated that game into motion and yet it seems to have flown over the heads of Hollande and Merkel.

    Notice the US has virtually no comments of their proposals--wonder why? AND the silence after the White House statement large nations should not bully small nations.

    Appears the US has been able just as Russia has been ---to slide out from under the requirements of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

    Rewarding a large nation bully seems to be counter to what Obama announced.

    Acc'd to Le Figaro: Franco-German plan is to offer Putin Ukraine's 'federalisation' and 'neutrality' (no NATO) to 'freeze' the conflict.

    #Donetsk leadership want Russians and OSCE to be part of the peacekeeping mission, but are against any other nation's contribution
    NOTE: this is the standard Russian demand as it was the same demand made in the Georgian and Moldavian enclaves and we see what it got us there.

    Russians at NATO @natomission_ru
    A.Grushko: If NATO decides to give lethal aid to Kiev, which continues to fight independence suppo…
    http://twishort.com/B97hc

    Read @MarekMenkiszak's: #Russia sabotages the #Minsk agreement on the Donbas pic.twitter.com/DDKceQLTnQ

    Merkel and Hollande ‘want to offer Putin federalization and non-alignment of Ukraine in exchange for peace’ http://www.unian.info/politics/10410...for-peace.html

    #Ukraine govt claims that Russian-backed separatists gained 1500km2 of new territory since the #Minsk ceasefire was agreed in September

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    Russian "report" on battle for height 307.9 - against all spins & embellishments - admits RU defeat:
    http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vosto...opodborka.html

    Ukrainian forces with captured Russian army T-72B1 near #Debaltseve.
    pic.twitter.com/yv27ExwBL3"

    This "local #Novorossiya rebel" is a veteran of #Russia police SWAT team fr. Ural Mountains, 20 y. experience. pic.twitter.com/Tdi8qqjflG

    #Ukraine buses evacuating #Debaltseve civilians after a local truce w/ #Russia came in2 effect last midnight. pic.twitter.com/GnYuqXo7tr #WW3

    Russian legislators don't like what they're seeing in the foreign press. Not one bit… https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/02/06...-foreign-media … pic.twitter.com/WITjceanPg

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    ATO spokesperson: Ukrainian policemen detained a #DPR fire spotter near #Debaltseve

    NSDC of Ukraine ✔ @NSDC_ua
    Pro-Russian militants and RU troops attempt to spread rumours that #Mariupol will be shelled on February 5-6

    NSDC of Ukraine ✔ @NSDC_ua
    Insurgents attack UA soldiers disguised as soldiers of the Aidar battalion in #Adviivka. None of the actual Aidar soldiers are in #Adviivka

    NSDC of Ukraine ✔ @NSDC_ua
    Ukrainian anti-aircraft systems took down an enemy UAV in Donetsk region

    NSDC of Ukraine ✔ @NSDC_ua
    Ukrainian Army eliminated 60 insurgents, 4 tanks, 2 self-propelled artillery pieces. Exploded 7 militants’ arms storages

    NSDC of Ukraine ✔ @NSDC_ua
    Ukrainian forces destroyed two enemy mortars and one enemy IFV

    NSDC of Ukraine ✔ @NSDC_ua
    Ukrainian Border Guards withstood insurgents’ attacks near #Sartana thanks to solid fortifications

  17. #2057
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    Russia agreed to a local ceasefire starting last night at mid night not allow civilians to exit a city being constantly shelled by Russian troops and her mercenaries and then this---seems nothing that Russia agrees to gets implemented.

    Grozny, December 1999: Russian Army shelled "humanitarian corridor" then blamed it on the Chechen Rep of Iskeria

    This came in minutes after ATO reported about Russians fired 3 GRAD salvos at corridor
    Pro-Russian militants attacked #Deblatseve corridor 3 times from “Grad” missile system

    There we go, Sputnik claims Ukrainian forces have fired at civilians & journalists during the evacuation of #Debaltseve

    A larger questions remains as to why are Russian troops and her mercenaries even shelling the city when Ukrainian troops are not in it?

    Why do they(Russians)destroy Debaltseve?Ukraine military not in the city.They know they're in the fields.But residential districts destroyed


    I call it the Grozny complex--there they did the same thing if one goes back and looks at photos of the sheer amount of destruction caused by the Russian Army.

  18. #2058
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Russia has stated over and over there are a number of items it wants from the Ukraine --non bloc status, NO NATO and NO EU---notice they have left the NO EU out of the game right now but will come back to it as the EEU is falling apart.

    So if the German and French "peace proposals" indicate that the Ukraine is to be block neutral even after their Rada voted against it and it was signed into law and "federalization" based on Russian definition THEN Russia has achieved all it wanted.

    AND this is what the Germans and French think will secure "peace" in the coming years---will they repeat the same concept for the Baltics as well as Russia has already stated that game into motion and yet it seems to have flown over the heads of Hollande and Merkel.

    Notice the US has virtually no comments of their proposals--wonder why? AND the silence after the White House statement large nations should not bully small nations.

    Appears the US has been able just as Russia has been ---to slide out from under the requirements of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

    Rewarding a large nation bully seems to be counter to what Obama announced.

    Acc'd to Le Figaro: Franco-German plan is to offer Putin Ukraine's 'federalisation' and 'neutrality' (no NATO) to 'freeze' the conflict.

    #Donetsk leadership want Russians and OSCE to be part of the peacekeeping mission, but are against any other nation's contribution
    NOTE: this is the standard Russian demand as it was the same demand made in the Georgian and Moldavian enclaves and we see what it got us there.

    Russians at NATO @natomission_ru
    A.Grushko: If NATO decides to give lethal aid to Kiev, which continues to fight independence suppo…
    http://twishort.com/B97hc

    Read @MarekMenkiszak's: #Russia sabotages the #Minsk agreement on the Donbas pic.twitter.com/DDKceQLTnQ

    Merkel and Hollande ‘want to offer Putin federalization and non-alignment of Ukraine in exchange for peace’ http://www.unian.info/politics/10410...for-peace.html

    #Ukraine govt claims that Russian-backed separatists gained 1500km2 of new territory since the #Minsk ceasefire was agreed in September
    On #Putin's plan: “It is not a peace plan. It is a road map to creating a new Transnistria or Abkhazia in #Ukraine"
    http://nyti.ms/16k5KM2


    Transnistria is a precious land for us.
    http://youtu.be/m1Wn37ZIgNc
    Indeed, it's a beautiful place, part of the Russian world

  19. #2059
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    Russian mercenaries reach a new height in the "altered state of reality" game.

    Now they are back to 1918. Seems they missed Putin using the term "New Russia".

    Donetsk rebels yesterday voted to proclaim themselves successors of the Donetsk-Krivorozhsk republic of 1918-19 http://dnr-sovet.su/155-memorandum-d...reemstvennosti
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 02-06-2015 at 12:46 PM.

  20. #2060
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    Really heavy explosions in #Donetsk going on constantly now, @SHuijboom reports

    Kadyrov bodyguard in #Donetsk. There was a video that has already been deleted. pic.twitter.com/UFm4xODsUi

    Putin could attack Baltic states warns former Nato chief | via @Telegraph http://fw.to/EiYD4WP

    Kremlin agitprop is sending its "journos" straight into the combat zone hoping they get killed so Ukraine gets blamed on

    Near Avdiivka #Donetsk reg militants shell resid areas, mil posit under guise of #Aidar while the batt is deployed to Luhansk reg - ATO spox

    "Majority of Russian forces are from Pskov,Chechnya & Ulyanovsk" http://24today.net/open/300661

    U.S. Trucking Companies Are Buying Drones For Ukr Military pic.twitter.com/TyPzBYkmcb http://liveuamap.com/en/2015/5-febru...drones-for-ukr

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