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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Her article was starkly helpful, if only as a reminder here that:

    What is interesting is that the vast majority of residents in the Eastern Ukraine are fleeing to the Ukraine, not Russia. It would be strange if the areas seized did not have a civilian population if a ceasefire really happens.
    David--you have a very valid point and the Russians tried to play the propaganda card when they gave a two day ceasefire for the civilians inside the current pocket that is in serious danger of encirclement.

    On the last push over sixty busloads of "so called" Russians opted to be taken to the Ukraine--ONE single bus with 30 civilians went to mercenary held territory---they played their disinformation video twice and then no more when countered in the social media by that simple fact.

    What is amazing is that right now the Russian disinformation campaign is being to a large degree countered by social media and open source analysts with no support from any western country--these countries talk a great line about having to do something but are simply so disorganized nothing gets done.

    THEN such media and other orgs such as Newsweek and the HRW walk right into Russian propaganda and even continue to pass it on knowing that it is fake.

    Reference the weapons discussion---it is not about giving weapons and the Ukraine charging off to Moscow---it is simply about being able to adequately defend your own sovereign territory from an invading force which is the right of every sovereign nation under the UN Charter.

    The problem is the west used the term "incursion" and not "invasion".

    Then it is even harder to justify weapons.

    We keep forgetting in all the discussions the three core Putin geo political goals that he uses in his smokescreen called the Ukraine---and now we see his moves being telegraphed for the Baltics and Hungary :

    1. disconnect the US from Europe
    2. discredit NATO
    3. discredit the EU


    Marine Le Pen spreading RF propaganda: "US wants to start a war in Europe to push the NATO to the Russian border." pic.twitter.com/1zyEtSBNLx

    #Kremlin warns the West not to issue ultimatums to #Putin as #Ukraine accuses Moscow of deploying more troops http://dailym.ai/1ESIC69

    #Lugansk, just a yard with some vehicles parked, nothing unusual...
    pic.twitter.com/bsaVdBqFhN

    The most troubling part of Lavrov's speech was not his normal BS, but his new hint, saying Hungarian minority in UA being mistreated.

    Same BMP-2 in Rostov,Russia and Uglegorsk,Ukraine
    Video http://youtu.be/CJm5bjM3Z5c
    http://youtu.be/7g05kXeULis
    via @stabilizec pic.twitter.com/zHXrA9nqIq

    Kremlin defines "anti-corruption" as "anti-government", which is perhaps more telling than it intended http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/515640.html

    Russians Advance In Ukraine, Leaving Death & Destructionhttp://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/re...erm=.xyEkOZrgM … Rebels don't destroy their own towns.They're Russians!

    While the West talks and talks and talks and talks and yet have not figured out diplomacy has utterly failed.

    Sanctions while great missed the chance to use SWIFT and now will not use it based on Russian threats.

    The pocket of Debaltseve closes, trapping thousands of Ukrainian troops: http://wp.me/p5sx0x-9ipic.twitter.com/F122L4yhOF
    Last edited by Jedburgh; 02-10-2015 at 06:34 PM.

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