-- who was very limited in what he did and thus can teach -- and Jomini who I believe is a hack. Sun Tzu is overused...
Quote Originally Posted by Surferbeetle View Post
Here however is where I respectfully disagree with you. The US Military has the capability, has executed (not as well as we do the traditional stuff – you are correct in noting this), and will continue to have to execute FID/COIN/DIME operations. We have no choice but to improve our skill set (and our interagency cooperation and support) if we desire to maintain or to continue to improve our position in the world.
I'm not sure we're in disagreement; we certainly are not on what you just wrote. The issue, I thought I was addressing is who should perform the bulk of the other than military effort after initial entry. I contend that is not the Army's job. Are you saying that it is? Or saying that others must help but the Army must be in charge?
My 2009 copy of the Economist’s Pocket World in Figures reports Germany’s GDP at 2,897 billion USD and Japan’s GDP at 4,368 USD. Like many today I enjoy the fruits of German automotive engineering and Japanese electrical engineering. When I discussed WWII with some of my relatives they relayed the benefits of reconstruction/economic integration/globalization were not fully visible at the time. I’ll go further and ask you about the national discussion concerning the merits of the Marshall Plan at the time versus the outcomes that you have witnessed. Hindsight being 20/20 the gamble paid off but I'll bet not everybody agreed with the allocation of resources.
Obviously, I'm in need of a class in Communicating.I don't seem to be doing that well. Yes, they are a success story and no one can deny the relative success of the CA/MG effort in bringing that about -- though a read of the history will show that in neither country was everything perfect; it never is. As I thought I said, the system we developed was adequate to contend with populations that had been thoroughly defeated and were complaisant and compliant.

Something I also said which you seem to elide was: "But we no longer have that ultra large Army with all those specialties and draconian "you will" laws; we do not have to accept an 'adequate' solution -- we're supposed to be a lot smarter now... -- and we can afford to pay for the best persons for a given job; and we are not now dealing with defeated former enemy populations who will do what they're told -- and I submit the military mindset is not best suited for winning other minds (not a knock, I include myself and a slew of friends and relatives in that mindset)."

Army run efforts in both Korea and Viet Nam with populations that had not only not been defeated but had no particular reason to be compliant were a totally different thing than postwar Germany and Japan (and I saw the latter). That is the point.
The reconstruction effort in Iraq has not matched our successes with the Marshall Plan. Maybe it will down the road, we will see.
Not a fair comparison in any case, putting a devastated continent back on its feet far transcends anything done with one little country that was hardly devastated, indeed and comparitively, had not suffered at all. The Marshall Plan was indeed a success and Kennan and Clayton who refined it and their Secretary of State George C. Marshall deserve a lot of praise for that even if it was the idea of Marshall's predecessor at state, James Byrnes. State and the Economic Cooperation Administration they formed to execute the plan also deserve much credit.

I'm unsure how that bolsters your case; The Army, Civil Affairs and the Occupation had absolutely nothing to do with the Marshall Plan. And, no, not everyone agreed with it but I'm not sure how that interfaces with a discussion of who should perform the bulk of the DI_E work in a FID scenario. Particularly when it was a state effort throughout.
You are right, multitools and duct tape are in fact amazing first responder tools but they are not long-term fixes. However, if the radiator hose pops in (pick your location) you and I are the multitool and duct-tape that have been used to ensure that our ‘car’ can limp to the ‘garage’ where the specialists are. Multitools and ductape are carried/maintained by the wise.
Communication again -- I thought I said that. Maybe not. What does this say:"That said, as I'm sure you'll recall, I've also been beating the drum for full spectrum capabilities -- however, we seem to differ on who should contribute what to those capabilities. I have no question that some CA capability is required for early entry forces in ANY spectrum. Nor do I question that in some FID efforts, a primarily (not fully, primarily) military CA effort will be required." I'm unsure how to better word that, what would you suggest?
This is the heart of it. Warfare is not limited to club, sling & stone, rifle, or atom bomb. Warfare is a manifestation of the competition for resources; we are animals despite our prized veneer of civilization...
Of course we are but, if I may, warfare is limited to club sling et.al. War, OTOH is not.
Sometimes we kill,
That's warfare
sometimes we embargo,
That's not warfare, war yes, warfare no. Don't take my word for it:

war·fare
1.
a. The waging of war against an enemy; armed conflict.
b. Military operations marked by a specific characteristic: guerrilla warfare; chemical warfare.
and sometimes we negotiate but it’s all about the competition for resources. We are not thinking wisely when we allow daylight between the objectives of our DIME apparatus or our ability to deploy/utilize DIME elements in peacetime, other than war, or war. Full Spectrum applies to mom, dad, the crumbsnatchers, and the whole of government. Clausewitz is not enough.
I do not disagree with a thing you say there. What you carefully do not do is say who has the lead and the responsibility for the D, the I and the E parts prior to (and that is important) and after initial entry.

Nor do you address who should have the lead in peacetime in an effort to forestall, preclude or sidestep a war. If you contend that is an Army job, I totally disagree and again say that simply because we have done it that way for forty years doesn't make it (a) Right or (b) the only way. At one time, I ran the budget for a lot of CA Bdes and Cmds and their ODT in th late 80s-- it was not a good effort for the US though it had undeniable training benefits for the Reservists who went.

I'm watched up close in two wars where the Military took the initial lead (as could be predicted and should continue to occur [I underlined that to draw attention to it]) and did an acceptable job. They later were supplanted by civilian agencies who put more resources in the right place instead of where Military Commanders wanted them. The civilian efforts quickly improved the processes and that convinced me that they need to be involved and that early on. I am essentially seeing the same thing occur today in two theaters.

My point is that -- as I said above -- the Army needs to foster and encourage significant improvement in other government agencies and should absolutely not try to compete with them in a game of "who's in charge."