I can fault it. It's nonsense. Patraeus is in no measure even close to military achievements of men who like Abrams, or even the highly dubious George Patton who never got five-stars. To elevate him to the same rank and status as William T. Sherman, and MacArthur, would be a travesty.Originally Posted by Infanteer
If nothing else, Iraq and Afghanistan are minute conflicts compared to the Civil and Second World Wars, so what has he done to deserve even being discussed?
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
Sherman was not a five star.
I also think the notion is not a good one. I can't see the purpose. Perhaps if there actually is a decisive victory at some point rather than stabilize-and-disengage.
Zenpundit raises compelling arguments
against awarding GEN Petraeus 5 stars - practical ones. In WW II American 4 stars were clearly outranked by British Field Marshals. Imagine how Montgomery would have dealt with Ike as a 4 star after he (M) had been promoted to FM. Today, that issue does not exist. But who is the senior American officer, a 5 star field commander or the 4 star CJCS (senior officer by law)? Nice sentiment, not practical or necessary.
Cheers
JohnT
Ranks should not be rewards.
Give him a Schwartzkopf-like victory parade in NYC IF he wins a war.
Respice te, hominem te memento.
We should be discussing how to reduce several hundred collective 'stars' from our current inventory, not how to add one.
Robert C. Jones
Intellectus Supra Scientia
(Understanding is more important than Knowledge)
"The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)
Oh, I don't disagree with you - Iraq and Afghanistan are minute when compared to other things and they aren't and never were wars of survival. Historically, I'd put him on the level of a Westmoreland or an Abrams - commanded large numbers of U.S. forces in dirty side wars. He just has a better press agent then the others (especially Westmoreland, who gets more bad press then he deserves).
However, he was the central figure of American conflicts in the 2000s. What I'm saying is I can't fault the perception that he was the military figure of the first, conflict-ridden decade of the 21st century. I don't really agree with the common perception that everything he touched turned to gold (it's Lawrence of Arabia-esque) and, like others have said, "stars aren't rewards".
Start with LCol/Col to get rid of inflationary pressure from the bottom. For some reason, Americans more then others have loved to over-promote. When we send guys internationally, we generally have to promote them 1 rank higher to do the same job in a NATO (American) setting.
Dumb idea. GEN Petraeus is serving the country superbly but the scale of forces involved does not compare to those under the command of Ike, Brad, and Mac. We don't make good company commanders colonels just because they are doing a good job commanding a company.
Or a compromise, if dumb idea gives a hint of being too judgemental and not inclusive of other points of view. If Afghanistan turns out well, make GEN Petraeus a 5 star after a 193 year interval like we did with G. Washington.
The fifth star hasn't always had a stellar pedigree. William Manchester's American Caesar doesn't exactly paint a flowery portrait of MacArthur. Fleet Admiral's Leahy and King were political creatures whose fifth star was largely a reward for proximity to power. Halsey made some fairly large mistakes, the largest of which was sailing his fleet into a typhoon and killing a lot of his men. I'm hard pressed to find an exemplary reason for Hap Arnold's fifth star.
A decent argument could be made that a fifth star is more political reward than merit based. As Zen points out, the only functional way Petraeus could wear a fifth star would be as CJCS, the most political position in the military. While I can respect the purist's views that these wars have not been wars of national survival, they've been wars nonetheless.
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